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Culture of suicide bombers

  1. Jul 9, 2005 #1
    Those who interest to see the real environment which could create suicide bombers in Palestine ... Here is short summary of documentary movie (less than 4 minutes) about the life of three Palestinian kids from Jenin refugees’ camps and how they end to be suicide bombers. The movie was produced by an Israeli (from Israeli Jews mother and Palestinian Christian father).

    http://www.arna.info/Arna/movie.php?lang=pic

    I know there is big difference between the suicide bombers in Palestine who are fighting against the oppression of Zionism and want to defend their homeland and those brainwashed Alqaeda terrorists who just attack other nations (including ME nations -Turkey, Morroco , Saudi Arabia....) randomly.

    Anyway, knowing the real story of those people and their real life is first step to improve the understanding instead of using these attacks as excuse to show hate and racism (mixed with ignorance) against 1/5 of the world (many of them are not really so religious).

    Furthermore, 40% of suicide bombers in Palestine are planned by secularists and leftist organization, which means that religion is secondary factor behind these attacks.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2005
  2. jcsd
  3. Jul 9, 2005 #2
    Religion is an excuse for these people. i can remember a BBC programme called spooks where a young muslim boy got brainwashed into beleiving that a suicide bombing was what allah wanted him to do. I imagine that most suicide bombers are very young and naive people who have been manipulated by cowards who don't have the balls to try and take any action themselves to acheive what ever it is that they are trying to acheive.
     
  4. Jul 9, 2005 #3
    Those kids lost their houses in 1948 as results of creation of Israel. They kicked out of their homeland to give place for Jews immigrants. Nothing exists anymore from their origin towns (540 towns) except piles of stones, partially destroyed mosques and churches as you see in this site.

    http://www.palestineremembered.com/

    The Israeli (with support of USA-UK) are not satisfy with getting 78% of Palestine, they follow them to their refugees camps to murder them again as what happen in refuges camps of Sabra and Chatila in Lebanon 17th September 1982 by Sharon (the Defense Minister) and his Lebanese alliance:
    http://www.palestinemonitor.org/israelipoli/sabra_shatilla_links.htm


    Or as what happen in Jenin refuigees caps (where those kids live) in 2002, Israel rejected to let the UN to investigate and USA the only country who gave excuse to Israel to murder civilians and mass bombing of their houses:

    http://www.jeninjenin.org/massacre.htm

    http://www.palestinemonitor.org/gallery/special_focus_jenin.htm

    Those people should return back to their houses according to the UN resolution no. 194, but it seems only the Iraqi and the Arab in general who should accept the UN resolutions. You could see the difference also with Syrian-Lebanese issue and the UN resolution 1599 with the 89 UN resolutions which ignored by Israel.

    UN resolution 194 about Palestinian refugees:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_General_Assembly_Resolution_194
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2005
  5. Jul 9, 2005 #4
    ha! suicide is one of the bigest no-nos in islam next to murder.
     
  6. Jul 9, 2005 #5
    So UK and USA are not responsible about the tragedy of others (especially Palestinian and Iraqi people)?

    I mentioned already that 40% of those people belong to Fatah (secular) and PPF (left-nationalist). For example, Islamic movements do not accept to let female to be suicide bombers, but there are around 11 female Palestinian suicide bombers, all of them (except one) belong to non religious organization.


     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2005
  7. Jul 9, 2005 #6
    How can a religion justify killing innocent people? If people are unhappy with the US or UK's governements then try and blow them up. What do people gain by attacking innocent civilians, all that these suicide bombers/terrorists do is create an even larger gap between western culture and that of the muslim culture.
     
  8. Jul 9, 2005 #7
    The topic here is about Palestinian - Israeli conflict.

    I do believe we all agree that what Alqaeda doing is real problem for the world (Muslims or not Muslims) . They are serious challege to the world as KKK or Nazi groups in last century, and I wish they will be annihilated completely. I am sorry that muslims today are not powerful to stop them as they did in 10th-14th century with Hashashin (Assisin):
    http://www.grohol.com/psypsych/Assassin


    I presented this post, because some people mix what happen in Palestine with Alqaeda including George Bush.

    It is always good to see the other side of the story...

     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2005
  9. Jul 9, 2005 #8

    Art

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    I agree with Andy on this. If a suicide bomber succeeded in killing the leaders or military of people they are fighting then fair enough. Even if they believe their civilians have been targeted by the forces they oppose I do not think it furthers their cause one iota by retaliating against innocent civilians. Two wrongs do not make a right.

    However the logic behind attacks like the one in London by pure terrorist groups have a much greater strategic target than simple retaliation. IMO it is an attempt by small minority groups (who do not enjoy popular support within the muslim community) to provoke a backlash against the muslim community to try and force them to become more militant in return.
    The best way to beat these terrorists is to resist giving them the result they want. It is sad to see the rightwing nationalists in Britain already using this tragedy as a platform to stir up racial bigotry in England.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2005
  10. Jul 10, 2005 #9
    I think a lot of that is as a result of the fact that western govenments tend to move around in a portable fortress while the would be attackers are using slingshots. It's probably more a case of the targets being killed becasue they CAN be and the perpetrators erroneously imagining that this will cause the electorate to look for the cause or reason behind their actions.

    When you review the media in moslem countries, you see the video tapes aired all the time with their list of reasons.

    A lot of them probably believe they are actually getting air time in the USA too.

    Unfortunately, the only place this is true is on the Arabic satelite stations viewed in the USA which, (only from what I have heard) has an amazing appeal to Moslems in the USA.

    Whitebread America simply has no interest in their reasons and they (the terrorists) lack the cultural background and feedback that what they do is merely galvinizing the American electorate against them.

    Of course the 'planners' don't make this known to the suicide bombers.

    Why 'pour sugar in the gas tank of your missile delivery system'.
     
  11. Jul 10, 2005 #10

    PerennialII

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    Nothing justifies taking innocent lives ... well lives overall, but all in all appearance of extremists such as suicide bombers isn't IMO such a strech - crush people's toes enough times etc. -> desperate people can take extreme measures, when they feel they don't have anything else left. It can't be justified, but once enough people feel they've been treated wrong, it isn't that difficult to come to a conclusion that at least some of them will or may take unimaginable action (when mixed with cultural and religious conditions + specifics of a certain conflict). All wrongdoings have reflections, which may not always be pretty.
     
  12. Jul 10, 2005 #11
    Do Americans have access to Al-Jazeera? Last I knew it was available here in Canada, as I remember seeing on a TV when I went to an Arab cafe for some shawarma and shisha.
     
  13. Jul 10, 2005 #12
    I find it ironic that the Israeli people are now inflicting the same measures on Palestinians that the Nazi's inflicted on them. Hatred begets hatred.

    People without a homeland destroying other people's homes. Does anyone else see the poetry in this?
     
  14. Jul 10, 2005 #13
    I know this will look like spam when you first look at it but I advise you to scroll down to see what is available (just after the sales pitch): http://www.tvrcb.com/arabicsatellitetv/

    There appear to be 12 stations on offer on this page with varying degrees of bias. And these are presented as the "Recommended" Arabic Satellite Tv Resources which begs the question, 'are there ones that are NOT recommended?'.

    Since I don't speak Arabic, there could be more available on some of the Arabic Links that popped up on my search.
     
  15. Jul 10, 2005 #14
    Sooner or later the Israelis and Palestinians will have to accept that neither party is going to be vanishing from that region anytime soon, and they'll have to learn how to live next to each other. Until that time, things just won't be very good in that neck of the woods.

    As to UN resolutions, until the UN can enforce its own Declaration of Human Rights, they're going to have a hard time persuading others to enforce its other provisions. The Israelis can argue that the terms of both UN Resolutions 194 and 242 have been abbrogated by the behavior of the Arab nations, the Palestinians can argue back, and they'll keep holding legal battles until Doomsday rolls around.

    I can only hope that an intertwined pair of states, one Palestinian and one Israeli, rises out of that mess.
     
  16. Jul 11, 2005 #15
    We would all do well to remember that it is the member states that enforce the will of the UN and the USA is a big part of that.

    Take a look at the use of the Security Council Veto by the USA:
    http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa03.html

    China has used the facility a total of 4 times.

    Now look at what the bulk of the US vetos were about ... There seem to be decisions by the majority of the world in favour of Palestine which all passed with a landslide majority for with 1 or 2 votes against and then the USA crushed the decision of the UN majority with a veto.
     
  17. Jul 11, 2005 #16
    Palestinian accepted the right of Israel to exist on 78% of Palestine in 1988. Did Israel accept the right of Palestinian to get back 22% of their homeland (Gaza and WB)?!

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/st...001/israel_and_palestinians/timeline/1988.stm

    ((The Palestinian National Council (a government-in-exile) convened in Algeria in November 1988 and voted to accept a "two-state" solution based on the 1947 UN partition resolution (181), renounce terrorism and seek a negotiated settlement based on Resolution 242, which called for Israel to withdraw from territory captured in the 1967 war, and Resolution 338.
    The US began dialogue with the PLO. But Israel continued to view the PLO as a terrorist organisation with which it would not negotiate. Instead, Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir proposed elections in the occupied territories before negotiations on a self-rule agreement. ))

    If they accept at that moment to let the Palestinian to establish their democratic state by the help of UN and without army in WB and Gaza, then we could have permanent peace since many years. (P.S: in that time no suicide bombers, no Hamas or any military Islamic organization exist yet, it was peaceful protest to end the occupation)

    Concerning the Jews settlers, they can get the Palestinian nationality and treated equally with the rest of people (Muslims and Christian), or simply they should leave because we can not live as Masters and slaves...!! It is holy land for Jews but also it is Holy Land for Christian and Muslims who fought each other globally for 200 years in Crusaders wars to conquer this land.

    Palestinian are nation which include different religions (23% of Palestinian were Christian and 5% Jews before creation of Israel) .We are not just religious community who want to establish ‘’Ghetto’’ and force the ‘’others’’ to live in isolated areas surrounded by walls and gates!!


     
  18. Jul 11, 2005 #17
    If?..by posting this thread you are trying to lessen the impact of the London bombings, then you are doing a Cr*p job.

    I do not dispute there are just cause's in every country on this planet, but trying to soften the blow by making 'reasons' seem justified for the killing of innocent people, is kind of Crazy, dont you think?

    Give me the Scientific Explanation of suicide bombers actually ending up at allahs feet in heaven, and I will counter it with Fact, Fact that show Suicide bombers end up in little pieces along with everyone else they DESTROY!

    And since when has total destruction been the ticket to heaven?..the mode of Transportaion is ludicrus, I think Suicide Bombers are quite simply saps, fools who are influenced by greater fools..not by God..Allah..Budda.

    Sorry I have to voice an opinion, if just for those who can no longer do so.
     
  19. Jul 11, 2005 #18
    No comments!!

    :bugeye:

     
  20. Jul 11, 2005 #19
    You know, suicide bombers soul is traped in the phisical body, you need an explosion equivalent to 400 joules to free the sould from the body, another 500gr of powder under the suicide bomber shoes help impulsing the soul to the heaven where it finaly meet allah, once in heaven allah count the bodies of death civilians and according to the number of casualties he designate a place in heaven for the suicide bomber.

    1 to 10 victims, 3 stars hotel room
    11 to 20 victims 4 stars hotel room with a parking lot
    21 ++ victims 5 stars hotel room with swimming pool and spa

    :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
     
  21. Jul 11, 2005 #20
    What you makes think, that allagh can count or define a physical body?..oh I see, he/it, ignores the innocents then?..if he can ignore the souls of the innocent victims in heaven, I am sure he/it can ignore the guilty cowards here on Earth.

    I personally think that martyrism is over-rated here on Earth, and grossly Underrated in another dimension.

    P.S : 3 stars hotel room
    4 stars hotel room with a parking lot
    5 stars hotel room with swimming pool and spa

    Can be achieved here on Earth, infact most countries have the above criteria, and many poor folk attain Holiday extravagance, by working hard and then returning to their everyday lives, so I suppose you are going to tell me that every hotel/resort here on Earth that has people lounging round and being pampered are actually martyr's?... from where/when?
     
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