Curious as to why a thread was closed

[Michaela SJ]

I am a new member here, and admittedly with little formal scientific education.
From the email I received this week: "Top Science Discussions from Last Week" there was a post regarding: /i-want-to-build-a-particle-accelerator.963790/ and the thread was closed by the moderator. I do not understand why.

Michio Kaku built one his garage. https://bit.ly/2RupDfZ
Patrick Stevenson apparently designed one. https://bit.ly/2TPS6tt
and I think there was at least one more in the Bay Area that I cannot locate.

What am I missing as to why this question was quashed?

 

[jedishrfu]

We are always concerned about dangerous experiments done by people not knowledgeable about the dangers. We wouldn't want a PF member to get injured trying to replicate an experiment they found here on site.

 

[Michaela SJ]

I appreciate that sentiment, but...

In the 1980s I lived across the street from an IBM Fellow. He was a very curious individual and the news was filled with 'Cold Fusion'; he and his teenage son set about trying to replicate the experiments around Cold Fusion.

They were unsuccessful, but they did a lot of research into the experiment and developed an attitude that they fully understood the premise and technology involved and let's try to replicate the experiment.

Would it not have been better to send the OP of 'i-want-to-build-a-particle-accelerator' to the stacks to get as much information on his subject as is available and then to enjoin him/her to be safe.

Maybe we could have offered some advice that Michio Kaku's mother offered when he asked:

So, I went to my mom one day and I said, "Mom, can I have permission to build a 2.3 million volt atom smasher betatronic accelerator in my garage?" And she kind of stared at me and said, "An atom smasher in the garage? I mean, sure. Why not? And don't forget to take out the garbage."
https://bit.ly/2QM9ddL

 

[gmax137]

I haven't read the book you quote from, but I bet Kaku doesn't go on to provide do-it-yourself plans for an accelerator either. Nobody* wants to see anyone else get hurt.

*Well, nobody other than the reckless folks on the internet, with cell-phone videos showing you how to do anything from backflips off the balcony to building high voltage machines.

 

[Michaela SJ]

...but I bet Kaku doesn't go on to provide do-it-yourself plans for an accelerator either.

Maybe not but Patrick Stephenson-Keating did (I will let the forum do the search)

Nobody* wants to see anyone else get hurt.

And neither do I, but we shouldn't blow-off legitimate questions without knowing the skill level of the questioner.

I had never built a house, but I watched over 4,000 being built while employed as a manager of major homebuilders. Without any skills in the trades, I tried my first house from the ground up. I went on to build 25 houses with nary a major problem. How did I do it - I watched houses being built and researched as much as I could about building houses. Aside from the occasional scratch and sliver, I was not in much danger.

 

[Nugatory]

Would it not have been better to send the OP of 'i-want-to-build-a-particle-accelerator' to the stacks to get as much information on his subject as is available and then to enjoin him/her to be safe.

The quick answer to that question is "No".

The longer answer is based on years of experience trying to sanely moderate these discussions (and you'll find some older threads here in the feedback forum):
- In an in-person conversation you can gain some sense of whether you're dealing with a candidate for a Darwin Award or a thoughtful person who will respect the limits of their knowledge. That doesn't work on anonymous Internet forum.
- In an in-person conversation you also can be confident that your advice, tailored for an individual of the second sort, will not also be seen and acted on by an individual of the first type. That's obviously not the case in an open forum.
- For many dangerous activities, just hitting the stacks is not good enough. No one should be working with accelerator voltages and dangerous radiation levels just on the basis of book knowledge; there's no substitute for having, or consulting with someone who has, practical experience. In the two accelerator examples you cite, one of them was a working with a professional physicist and the other was a professional physicist.

 

[Michaela SJ]

All told, I do not disagree with both of you comments. Just offering my take.

 

[Nugatory]

had never built a house, but I watched over 4,000 being built while employed as a manager of major homebuilders. Without any skills in the trades, I tried my first house from the ground up. I went on to build 25 houses with nary a major problem. How did I do it - I watched houses being built and researched as much as I could about building houses. Aside from the occasional scratch and sliver, I was not in much danger.

Watching 4000 homes being built as a construction manager strikes me as altogether adequate preparation.

Someone starting their accelerator project by posting to an anonymous Internet forum is in a different universe of competence than you - I bet it didn't occur to you to ask Reddit where to start before you built your first house, but that's basically what the person starting that accelerator thread was doing.

 

[russ_watters]

In the 1980s I lived across the street from an IBM Fellow. He was a very curious individual and the news was filled with 'Cold Fusion'; he and his teenage son set about trying to replicate the experiments around Cold Fusion.

They were unsuccessful, but they did a lot of research into the experiment and developed an attitude that they fully understood the premise and technology involved and let's try to replicate the experiment.

That's great I guess, but we probably wouldn't have supported their efforts because:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg13318030-600-fatal-explosion-closes-cold-fusion-laboratory/

Evidently, hydrogen explosions in cold fusion experiments are so common it's practically regarded as normal! So irresponsible!

I had never built a house, but I watched over 4,000 being built while employed as a manager of major homebuilders. Without any skills in the trades, I tried my first house from the ground up. I went on to build 25 houses with nary a major problem. How did I do it - I watched houses being built and researched as much as I could about building houses.

But designed by licensed professional architects and under the tutelage of a manager in a licensed home-building contractor, right? That's a lot more formal than a do-it-yourselfer.

 

[OCR]

What am I missing as to why this question was quashed?

You're missing... "The Song of the Moderator " . .
It's a dang good tune... but with a very finite life time, hear here anyway. . lol

.

 

[Michaela SJ]

But designed by licensed professional architects and under the tutelage of a manager in a licensed home-building contractor, right? That's a lot more formal than a do-it-yourselfer.

I actually became a licensed General Building Contractor in 1978, before building my first home and I managed the design of every project I built. No one would consider me a DIYer. 25 houses with sales prices in excess of $500,000 in 1984-1990 Dollars without administrative complaint or significant warranty issue sort of precludes the DIYer appellation.

 

[russ_watters]

I actually became a licensed General Building Contractor in 1978, before building my first home and I managed the design of every project I built. No one would consider me a DIYer.

Right, that's why using yourself as an example is not a good fit for the angle of your question. We need to be much more careful with DIYers exactly because they are not professionals.

 

[Rive]

I actually became a licensed General Building Contractor

Guess you too have the decency NOT to do dangerous things you are NOT licensed to do?

Many people here has this, but it cannot be expected from any random OP. As I've seen it many times there is a well honed sensibility here, so borderline topics not always got quashed (at least not immediately, if the OP clearly has the right attitude), but a particle accelerator (any type except a mechanical one ) is just out of question.

 

[hmmm27]

mmm...

As an example, I have some (archaic, otherwise non-sequitur) proficiency working with high explosives, but no experience passing that on to others.

Do you really think I should gain teaching cred through trial and error ?

That being said, the first Search hit for "DIY cyclotron" was an article on people who roll their own. Note it's always a team effort.

Either way, I'd certainly start with a cloud chamber.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Hi everyone. I want to stick a fork in my toaster. Do you recommend three or four tines?

 

[gmax137]

as many times as you like

 

[Tom.G]

Vanadium 50 said:
Hi everyone. I want to stick a fork in my toaster. Do you recommend three or four tines?

as many times as you like

It will probably return fewer.

 

[hmmm27]

Salad tongs.

 

[nitsuj]

I had never built a house, but I watched over 4,000 being built while employed as a manager of major homebuilders. Without any skills in the trades, I tried my first house from the ground up. I went on to build 25 houses with nary a major problem. How did I do it - I watched houses being built and researched as much as I could about building houses. Aside from the occasional scratch and sliver, I was not in much danger.

This is a difficult point to make, and "doesn't " fly with many, particularly with those who do have said experience. A person with experience might retort, well then it's a shame you're no better building houses after 25 of them.

Anyways the point from the mods is the most important; safety. Its not "I want to build a potato battery", or a house.

I believe CRT displays qualify as "particle accelerators", get an old tv, turn it on and think of what it's doing lol...

 

[Tom.G]

I believe CRT displays qualify as "particle accelerators", get an old tv, turn it on and think of what it's doing lol...

Yeah, I gave that suggestion in a thread but with much more detail. The thread was closed and IIRC, my post was erased. I wonder if it was 'vacuum' or 'flyback transformer' that spooked someone.

 

[hmmm27]

I wonder if it was 'vacuum' or 'flyback transformer' that spooked someone.

Depends which you consider more spooky : a bang followed by a long stream of cursing vs a bang followed by a thud then silence.