Curious what the take is around here on antidepressants

[Moonbear]

That's strange.I can never trust pills or psychologist about curing spychological problems.I think we should learn to take life easy.Try to laugh in difficult situations.when I'm depressed,I usually think about what makes me sad or sometimes write them and I feel better.I read my notes which I wrote in the same situation and think about how my concerns weren't as bad as I thought.how problems've solved by passing time.and I sometimes in hard situations say to myself "crying or not won't make any difference.so smile and be happy.Thanks to God, we don't have to live in this world forever.The whole world is a joke.let's feel ourselves beside God and laugh at it like him"and then I feel better.

That's the difference between the kind of episodes of sadness that don't need medication, when you can just find something to do to feel better on your own, and the type of clinical depression that requires medication because you can't just snap yourself out of it.

 

[JamesU]

this thread is depressing

*goes to find zoloft bottle*

 

[hypnagogue]

also, how do you guys feel about people who have to take those drugs? maybe its just me, but i always sort of viewed them as weak... unable to function without meds seems... less than whole... you know what i mean? like... i don't want to have to dependent on something outside me inorder to be normal... makes me feel.. well.. abnormal. and that's depressing...

I think this attitude is fairly common, but it kind of strikes me as an outdated folk psychology view. It seems to stem from the idea that human will power is infinite and/or the idea that the mind is separate from the brain; basically, 'mind over matter.' But things don't really work like that. If you build a house based on a faulty set of physical laws, the house will probably collapse. Likewise, if you try to act as if conscious thoughts and intentions alone are enough to leap any mental hurdles, you're only setting yourself up for a fall. Will power is not unlimited by any stretch (if it were, dieting would be easy and everyone who wanted to be skinny would be). And of course, the mind is subject to all sorts of mechanisms and conditions in the brain, and sometimes those mechanisms need a little tweaking or tune-up for everything to run optimally.

Look at it this way... is there any shame in an old man using a cane to help him walk? Is his cane use indicative of an inherent character flaw or personal weakness? Of course not. There are just simple physical conditions presented to him in life which present to him a challenge. To overcome that challenge, he needs to change his existing conditions, so he uses the cane. What is the greater character flaw-- to concede that he needs some assistance given his current situation, or to struggle needlessly to do something as simple as walking? I'm not saying will power is completely ineffectual or that any attempt at all at self-reliance should be abandoned or anything like that, but it's certainly the wiser path to know, respect, and accept one's own limitations than to ignore them and struggle a needless struggle in vain.

As for being dependent on things outside yourself to be whole... this is not something to be ashamed of at all! If you think about it, everyone is already this way, all the time. On the biological level, we need to constantly support our bodies with food and drink; on the social level, we need love, acceptance, companionship, etc. from others, without which no one can be a healthy human being, let alone a whole one; and so on. So everyone, without exception, needs a constant stream of these things from outside of themselves in order to sustain them and make them whole. Some groups of people have needs that are unique with respect to the population at large, but that's not something to be looked down upon. Diabetics need to take insulin shots because their bodies just don't regulate certain chemicals in an optimal way. Should they feel ashamed or outcast because of that? Are they diabetic because they're weak-willed or in some way not whole as a person? Of course not. The situation of a diabetic who needs to take insulin is really not all that different from the situation of someone who could benefit from taking an anti-depressant.

 

[Gale]

you're right hypnagogue...
the belief is sort of an outdated folk thing i guess... when i was young and very impressionable, my parents were delving into pseudo-hippy-new-age stuff... i ended up with some weird unfounded beliefs...

i dunno... you're right though, and the cane was a good example. its still just hard in today world to know the limits of what's helping us, and what's going too far. Thanks, really. your posts was super helpful, and really, thanks.

anyways Lisa, like moonbear said, there's a difference. its not just a sadness resulting from some misfortunate situation, its just this overwhelming sense of unhappy. most people tend to think I'm very optimistic, and mostly i am. when i face a problem, i make the best of it mostly, (at home its a bit harder...) but the thing is, when I'm "depressed" there's really no cause or trigger. there's nothing to look on the bright side of. i can have millions of reasons to smile... but it just doesn't matter.

i hope this is a learning experience, and that i'll be able to relate to others late on. a few years ago i had no one to talk to at all when i first started getting very seriously depressed. friends just didn't understand. it was lonely. I'm at least glad that i can post in here. and i want to do what i can for anyone else who has to experience this. its so much harder going through it alone, and so i hope that my going through it will help me to console others.

I'm still really worried about medicines. but i'll call the doc's tomorrow for an appt. when asking about meds, are there any specific questions i should ask?

(btw yomamma: not helpful...)

 

[Moonbear]

I'm still really worried about medicines. but i'll call the doc's tomorrow for an appt. when asking about meds, are there any specific questions i should ask?

Of course you should ask any question that comes to mind or that concerns you. Ask about what you should expect to experience as the medicine starts working and how long it will take to work. Someone much earlier in the thread mentioned it can take 4-6 weeks to reach full effectiveness, so you should know to expect this if that's the case for the one they prescribe you. Ask the doctor to explain why he/she is putting you on the one they choose, and how it works (just a good way to make sure they are thinking about what they are prescribing and not giving you whatever the most recent drug rep was pushing). You should also ask what the major side effects might be and if they are a problem, whether there's a different medication that won't have those side effects. Also find out about what happens if it doesn't work, is it safe to just stop the medication and start a new one, or should you gradually reduce the dose and have a clearance time before starting something new (some linger in the system a while, so you can't just switch to something different until you've been off the old one a while). Oh, and of course check on any drug interactions (your pharmacist might be able to answer that better than the doctor even), even for anything over-the-counter. These are just the general types of questions to ask about any new medication.

 

[Lisa!]

That's the difference between the kind of episodes of sadness that don't need medication, when you can just find something to do to feel better on your own, and the type of clinical depression that requires medication because you can't just snap yourself out of it.

Yes,you're right but I think we should try not to get involved in these kind of depression.we should do sth about our depression before it turns to be serious that we would have to use medication.but anyway,I really disagree with medication!

 

[Danger]

I think we should try not to get involved in these kind of depression.we should do sth about our depression before it turns to be serious

You're still not quite grasping what it is that we're talking about here. It's not something that can be prevented just by knowing about it ahead of time, any more than something like MS or macular degeneration. For now, pharmaceutical treatment is the only thing that can be done (and that includes any 'natural' remedies, since they contain the same active ingredients as the commercial ones).

 

[Moonbear]

Yes,you're right but I think we should try not to get involved in these kind of depression.we should do sth about our depression before it turns to be serious that we would have to use medication.but anyway,I really disagree with meditation!

That's a really outdated view of depression, along the lines of what hypnagogue discussed. We now know that there are very physical aspects of clinical depression involving problems with neurotransmitters in the brain. If it's the type of depression that requires medication, there is nothing that will help prevent that. Please re-read what Gale has written here. She's not talking about a little case of the blues because she's bored or missing her friends from school now that it's summertime, she's talking about something that has been a long-term problem and seems to be overwhelming her at the present time. It's somewhat insensitive and unhelpful to suggest it was preventable when it isn't.

 

[Lisa!]

You're still not quite grasping what it is that we're talking about here. It's not something that can be prevented just by knowing about it ahead of time, any more than something like MS or macular degeneration. For now, pharmaceutical treatment is the only thing that can be done (and that includes any 'natural' remedies, since they contain the same active ingredients as the commercial ones).

maybe you're right coz today I'm so busy and I haven't read all replies.You know somhow thes kind of deseases seem to be incurable right now.I know lots of examples of people who are involved in .and I have to say even medication couldn't help you.you know I can't explain my ideas about this case now maybe I do it later.

 

[Lisa!]

That's a really outdated view of depression, along the lines of what hypnagogue discussed. We now know that there are very physical aspects of clinical depression involving problems with neurotransmitters in the brain. If it's the type of depression that requires medication, there is nothing that will help prevent that. Please re-read what Gale has written here. She's not talking about a little case of the blues because she's bored or missing her friends from school now that it's summertime, she's talking about something that has been a long-term problem and seems to be overwhelming her at the present time. It's somewhat insensitive and unhelpful to suggest it was preventable when it isn't.

Oh that's so bad.I really don't want to agree with you about unpreventable deseases.I consider that people who have a normal life and of course personality don't get involved in these kind of problems.

 

[Gale]

Oh that's so bad.I really don't want to agree with you about unpreventable deseases.I consider that people who have a normal life and of course personality don't get involved in these kind of problems.

<snip> It's somewhat insensitive and unhelpful to suggest it was preventable when it isn't.

Lisa, look, you really really aren't helping, and I'm not feeling super spectacular, so please, just... stop being counterproductive. please.

 

[Danger]

Sometimes you can alleviate some of the worst symptoms temporarily by just laughing. It sounds a bit weird, but the process really does alter dopamine levels to some extent. Something that you can't help finding funny can make you feel better for a while (maybe at least enough to get to sleep easier). I highly recommend a hilarious movie or two. Marx Brothers, perhaps, or something like Blazing Saddles. Maybe a George Carlin album. Anyhow, I got to check out now. Goodnight.

 

[Astronuc]

Oh that's so bad.I really don't want to agree with you about unpreventable deseases.I consider that people who have a normal life and of course personality don't get involved in these kind of problems.

I have yet to meet a person who has a "normal life".

Two other aspects to keep in mind - diet and sleep.

Poor diet can affect one's mind. If one's food is deficient in certain vitamins, particulaly B-complex, it will affect one's mental state. Consider taking either a multi-vitamin (1 per day) or B-complex. But don't overdo it - too much of certain vitamins can be harmful. Discuss this with a doctor.

Sleep - irregular sleep cycles or sleep deprivation will induce depression. Try to sleep on a regular basis.

In both cases, poor diet and irregular sleep can develop a negative feedback with depression.

 

[Bladibla]

It could be good conquering it mentally. Because while medication *can* sooth it for a while, there will never be a permanent antidote.

 

[Monique]

It could be good conquering it mentally. Because while medication *can* sooth it for a while, there will never be a permanent antidote.

The medication is a tool to handle the situation, get motivated again about class and your future and sort out personal matters. It's important to deal with that stuff, otherwise the feelings will come back when you stop the medication (people who just come off anti-depressants are a high risk population).

I don't think there is anything wrong with taking anti-depressants if it is really making you lathergic to the point you can't function anymore. I'd first try counceling though! See if talking and opening up about your problems make you feel better about yourself, that is the ultimate goal.

 

[Moonbear]

I don't think there is anything wrong with taking anti-depressants if it is really making you lathergic to the point you can't function anymore. I'd first try counceling though! See if talking and opening up about your problems make you feel better about yourself, that is the ultimate goal.

In general, yes, counseling first is a good way to go. In Gale's specific case, she's already done the counseling part, they've suggested medication a few times and she's refused, and she's now at a point where she's realizing she might need it and give it a try.

For some people, they can eventually go back off the antidepressants if the depression is secondary to another problem and once that problem is resolved, the medication is no longer needed; for others, it will be a lifelong issue.

Gale has shared with us that she's been feeling depressed for a long time, it got a little better when she was in dorms, but did not go away, so that probably suggests some of it is worsened by living at home, but the underlying problem is not related just to being at home, and she's shared that she's been thinking about suicide. That last one is the one that has me most concerned for her and tells me this is not something to sit around thinking about but is at a point where she needs to talk to a professional very soon, before it gets worse than it is already.

Oh that's so bad.I really don't want to agree with you about unpreventable deseases.I consider that people who have a normal life and of course personality don't get involved in these kind of problems.

Again, you're not listening to what we're saying here. The scientific literature says this is a physical problem, whether you want to believe it or not, it is true. And yes, normal people with normal lives, even those who seem to have it all, can suffer from depression. It is the attitude you're presenting here that people can just work through it themselves that leaves people feeling they can't talk about their depression and hesitant to seek help until they are so overwhelmed they resort to drastic measures. Gale has come here and taken the chance of talking with us about her problem and I for one care enough about her to not let someone get away with negativity that is based on opinion rather than facts that could push her away from getting the help she needs right now.

Here are just a handful of the many references from this year alone that report on the biological basis of depression.


Newberg AB, Amsterdam JD, Wintering N, Ploessl K, Swanson RL, Shults J, Alavi A.
123I-ADAM Binding to Serotonin Transporters in Patients with Major Depression and Healthy Controls: A Preliminary Study.
J Nucl Med. 2005 Jun;46(6):973-7.

Caetano SC, Fonseca M, Olvera RL, Nicoletti M, Hatch JP, Stanley JA, Hunter K, Lafer B, Pliszka SR, Soares JC.
Proton spectroscopy study of the left dorsolateral prefrontal cortex in pediatric depressed patients.
Neurosci Lett. 2005 Jun 3; [Epub ahead of print]

Ehrlich S, Breeze JL, Hesdorffer DC, Noam GG, Hong X, Alban RL, Davis SE, Renshaw PF.
White matter hyperintensities and their association with suicidality in depressed young adults.
J Affect Disord. 2005 Jun;86(2-3):281-7.

Koks S, Nikopensius T, Koido K, Maron E, Altmae S, Heinaste E, Vabrit K, Tammekivi V, Hallast P, Kurg A, Shlik J, Vasar V, Metspalu A, Vasar E.
Analysis of SNP profiles in patients with major depressive disorder.
Int J Neuropsychopharmacol. 2005 Jun 1;:1-8 [Epub ahead of print]

Perico CA, Skaf CR, Yamada A, Duran F, Buchpiguel CA, Castro CC, Soares JC, Busatto GF.
Relationship between regional cerebral blood flow and separate symptom clusters of major depression: A single photon emission computed tomography study using statistical parametric mapping.
Neurosci Lett. 2005 May 24; [Epub ahead of print]

Karolewicz B, Stockmeier CA, Ordway GA.
Elevated Levels of the NR2C Subunit of the NMDA Receptor in the Locus Coeruleus in Depression.
Neuropsychopharmacology. 2005 May 25; [Epub ahead of print]

 

[BicycleTree]

Everything in the body or brain is physical by definition; you don't need to supply any sources to assert that. But it is also mental. The attitudes you take have a great impact on your health and on the functions of your body. They are themselves aspects of the brain, and that's what they do. The "physical" argument says nothing about whether your equally physical mental attitudes and self-discovery can help you.

Sheer willpower is a fool's path, but that does not mean that overcoming depression without aid is a fool's path. If a yogi can control his circulation mentally to the point of turning one side of his hand red at will, you can learn a more harmonious mind. Ask yourself: how do you really feel at the moment? Try this: close your eyes and spend five to ten minutes just being aware of how you feel, and at the end of it write some stuff down.


Despite weak analogies to the contrary, taking drugs to alter your mind is significantly different from using prosthetics for your body. When it's your mind, it's really you. Plus, drugs are approximate. They cause a change in you which should help you, and perhaps will, but because it's a drug there can't be fine-tuning. It can get you in the general ball-park of the right chemical balance, and that's all it can do, since unlike your mind, a drug does not have much feedback about your mental state.

I have not taken drugs, for the preceding reasons and a couple more.

I think you should try the meditative method I described earlier, seriously, every day or a couple times a day for a month or two, and on your own (without drugs).


Also, what are you living for? Do you have real personal goals? You need to have them, and maybe living up to what people expect from you--and I may or may not be reading too much into your wish to be a "functional member of society" instead of other things--is not enough. This is something I have thought about for myself, and if it's been a problem for you then it's been a problem for me as well, and the way to solve it is to seek things that you yourself really want to do and really see as valuable.

 

[adrenaline]

There has been recent publicity about teens committing suicide AFTER starting to take antidepressants, but from what I'm familiar with of such cases, what happens is they already have those suicidal thoughts before starting the medication, but don't have the energy to follow through; they're just lying around in a constant funk. When they start the medication, as it's starting to work, but hasn't fully reversed the depression, they reach a stage where they have the energy to carry through on those thoughts while they still have those thoughts. That's the stage where people close to them need to be educated about the risks and to carefully watch them.

Actually, there were never any completed suicides. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/492840?src=search

These studies just showed that some teenagers had increased suicidal thoughts and behavior pointing to suicide. This is something the media never made clear. In all honestly, I really think the kids were bipolar and not unipolar depressed and the SSRIs flipped them into a very agitated, manic state. (Contrary to belief, a bipolar has a higher tendency to commit suicide during the manic rather than the depressed state.) In other words, if you are bipolar, an antidepressant without a mood stabilizer can make things worse.

 

[Nereid]

I'd like to return to something that Astronuc said ... exercise.

First though, I fully agree with what Moonbear has been saying - discussing your long-term feelings, Gale, with a doctor, soon, is really important (perhaps you've already done that?).

I've heard that for some people, a certain amount of regular exercise makes a huge difference. Something about brain endorphins? Like most things, it varies considerably from one person to another, I'm sure. For myself, if I don't get in at least an hour's brisk walking every second day, I start to feel bad, and by around the fourth day, in addition to headaches and general irritability, feelings of depression start showing up. It's not a virtuous circle either - go for too long, and exercise seems about as inviting as torture. However, if I do get my legs a-walking, I start to feel better after ~20 minutes, and at the end of the walk, my mood has generally picked up a lot.

 

[Monique]

Today I watched Oprah, where Brooke Shields candidly spoke about her postpartum depression. It shows the reality of depression and how it suddenly can overcome you. It is very courageous to speak up out about it, it requires respect.

She mentioned how she absolutely did not want to take drugs, because of the stigmatization. Then she did try them and started feeling better within the course of three weeks (but with the warning that you should not suddenly stop taking it).

 

[JasonRox]

I'd like to return to something that Astronuc said ... exercise.

First though, I fully agree with what Moonbear has been saying - discussing your long-term feelings, Gale, with a doctor, soon, is really important (perhaps you've already done that?).

I've heard that for some people, a certain amount of regular exercise makes a huge difference. Something about brain endorphins? Like most things, it varies considerably from one person to another, I'm sure. For myself, if I don't get in at least an hour's brisk walking every second day, I start to feel bad, and by around the fourth day, in addition to headaches and general irritability, feelings of depression start showing up. It's not a virtuous circle either - go for too long, and exercise seems about as inviting as torture. However, if I do get my legs a-walking, I start to feel better after ~20 minutes, and at the end of the walk, my mood has generally picked up a lot.

Yeah, I also agree with what Astronuc said.

Eating healthy and sleeping properly helps a lot physically and mentally. Even drinking more water is beneficial, since most people are dehydrated. The best thing to do is go to google.com and search what vitamins and minerals do for you. They do wonderful things! Sure drinking milk is great, but not the best. Get a variety of good foods, so you're body is sure to absord those vitamins and minerals.

Note: I have been eating really healthy in the past month, and there is no turning back anymore. I've been eating better than the average person before, and still felt good, but not this GOOD!

Take it one step at a time. Drink less soda. Stop drinking soda. Stop eating chips. Stop eating fast food. Switch to whole wheat.

One step at a time...

 

[Gale]

right well, I've realized this long ago actually. i cut soda from my diet ages ago. same with fast food, (which wasn't hard considering how far away from it i am.) i do have a weakness for chips. but i don't eat them much. unfortunately when i do, i tend to binge. same with everything really... but I've still been pretty healthy for a while. i also keep picking up running or walking and yoga. I've been doing yoga pretty consistently for a year or so now too. unfortunately, none of the above is an every day thing. but pretty generally for the last year or so I've been trying to better my overall health... and mostly i have. i also tried taking a multi-vitamin too.. not as successful with that.

anyways, I've tried most of the generic stuff... like i said, its not always an every day thing... so mayeb that's what's wrong still... but i don't know really.

i'll be seeing the doctor this monday, and possibly a therapist on friday or next week... i hope things work out... today was a crappy day. very depressed... no reason...

i'm going to try and fix my sleeping too... sleep during the day again, and wake up early. try to keep up with my morning runs, (which were right before i went to sleep before... heh,) and i dunno... i was hoping my physical therapy would make my body feel better so i'd feel better... but not so much yet... we'll see...

 

[JasonRox]

Also, too much sleep can cause depression, so don't assume sleeping over it will help.

I wish I knew what depression really was because I don't really know. I know about sadness and stuff, but I've never got like depressed or something.

 

[Dooga Blackrazor]

I have depression, but it's came and gone throughout the years. I'm taking medication at the moment, but I'm still being monitored to see how powerful a dose I need to take. Oversleeping and undersleeping shouldn't make much a difference either way - I wouldn't worry about it. At least if you sleep longer you won't have to wait as long for any medications to work as you will have slept half your waiting time away - most meds take a few weeks, at minimum, to begin working properly.

Just a note: depression typically isn't something that is treated occasionally. Like me, you can have a type of depression that comes and goes throughout the course of years, but depression medications aren't meant to be taken because you've been having a rough few weeks and feel bad. Depression medications aren't for sadness that results from environmental conditions. Depression medications are for treating a lingering or permanent chemical imbalance in the brain that may or may not have arisen due to environmental issues. Overmedication for depression has become a big issue, but I'd definitely recommend getting things checked out.

 

[Gale]

Also, too much sleep can cause depression, so don't assume sleeping over it will help.

I wish I knew what depression really was because I don't really know. I know about sadness and stuff, but I've never got like depressed or something.

well, I've been sleeping maybe 5 hours for every 40 I'm awake... I'm pretty sure a little sleep will be more helpful than harmful...

and the feelings i'd sort of associate with depression are just like... hopelessness mostly because you can't imagine what could change that'd make you happy. worthless, sometimes i feel like I'm supposed to be sad because i can't see all the joyous things in life. apathy. like, I'm depressed and that's not going to change, so nothing matters. and its really hard to change the mindset because you feel like you won't be able to change no matter how hard you try, and even if you do, that it won't really matter.

then i think on top of that plays the rest of your emotions. lots of people get really anxious. i do a lot. because I'm sad, it means i suck, and if i suck, people won't like me, and if people don't like me, then that's very sad and i don't feel like being alive any more. a lot of times people get really emotional and every little thing can make them cry or get angry. i tend to feel really stupid when i feel depressed too. like, i know i shouldn't be depressed, but i am, and so i feel stupid for having unwarrented emotions. that leads back into feeling worthless and then apathetic and the hopeless...

thats the real problem with depression... its sort of a vicious cycle. once you're in that frame of mind... you can't get out of it. and lots of things can get you to feel that way. its like, not sad so much as... i dunno... it just sucks. you don't want to be alive cause it just sucks. you don't feel like you're living at all. you're just sort of watching time go by and hoping for something to magically change.

i don't know if that explains it at all...

 

[Loren Booda]

Regular sleep time, mood chart, no recreational drugs (e. g., caffeine, benedryl, sudafed, ephedrine, fad stimulants, etc.), sensible diet, exercise, support groups, hobbies, light box (for seasonal affective disorder), structured routine, socialization, meditation, pets, effective therapist, controlled stress and compliance with therapy.

Some helpful sites:

http://www.nami.org, http://www.nimh.nih.gov, http://www.narsad.org, http://www.nmha.org, http://www.locatorplus.gov, http://www.dbsalliance.org

 

[zoobyshoe]

thats the real problem with depression... its sort of a vicious cycle. once you're in that frame of mind... you can't get out of it. and lots of things can get you to feel that way. its like, not sad so much as...

Gale, I think the suggestion offered by Loren Booda (in his earlier post) is something you should definitely check out. Cognitive therapy is specifically geared toward getting people out of vicious thought cycles.

There are cogitive therapists just about everywhere now, or you can check out the most popular book out there on the subject, Feeling Good by David Burns. There are about a zillion copies out there, you should have no trouble finding it at a library.

 

[saltydog]

My goodness people. No one's asked? Can I be nossy Gale? What's wrong with home? I mean don't have to say. I can think of a ton of things really. Are you aware of the problems that many/most girls go through when growing up? Surely you must. I don't wish to imply your problems are not severe but may I suggest that it might be possible that you're really not that different from most girls: all of you are sisters. It's sad really what young girls go through these days. I know. I have a daughter . . . "Reviving Ophelia", by Mary Pipher. Where were all the dads . . it was a painful read . . .

 

[JasonRox]

Most people are not healthy, so I always vote bad eating habits.

Eating habits are so bad nowadays, that it is now mandatory for some companies to insert certain vitamins and minerals into their products because everyone eats like morons.

Also, eating healthy is almost always associated with eating less. People think by eating less at McDonald's, than their counterpart, then they are eating healthy or healthier. The bottom line is... if you're eating junk food, however the portion size, it is unhealthy period.

I see so many people trying to lose weight by eating less also. Biggest mistake you can do. All this does is shoot your metabolism to death, then you complain that your metabolism is slow. So, I recommend reading about weight loss (not advertised weight loss).

Like the above person said, this can be because of age or family related issues.

I prefer to look at diet and exercise because we all know that in North America no one gets it. I mean NO ONE, not even the ones at the GYMS! Sad.

Note: If you are awake for 40 hours and sleep 5 hours, this isn't helping your general health one bit. It's not about a thing you plan on doing, it's about the thing you are going to do.