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News Dan Rather / CBS using forged Bush related National Guard documents?

  1. Sep 10, 2004 #1
    I suppose the bigger question is, if forgeries, from where did these documents come? If there is any direct connection to the Kerry camp I'd speculate that he's finished. These documents were 'aged' so, if they are forgeries, there is certain intent here to mislead these as originals. CBS stands by their story and the authenticity of these documents. Note that ABC has already indicated that their experts have indicated that these documents are likely forgeries. From the ABC site -

    The link for those who would like to read the entire article.


    This next article is at the Weekly Standard web sie (linked below) and offers the opinions of a number of outside experts - and their rationales.

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2017
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 10, 2004 #2
    A link to the blog POWERLINEBLOG. I understand this was the blog that ‘broke’ this story.

    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/007760.php [Broken]
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
  4. Sep 10, 2004 #3
    "60 Minutes has obtained a number of documents we are told were taken from Col. Killian's personal file"


    How can that possibly be considred credible investigative journalism?

    More from the article:

    You have got to be kidding me. Lesson to forger: Use Courier! At least you may withstand scrutiny past a casual glance.

    My bet: This was all done by some kid and handed to a goofball journalist too stupid to check the document out before reporting about it.
  5. Sep 10, 2004 #4
    ? You mean the left?? It really doesdn't matter either wway however -- because this is what it is.

    Note: These documents, the ones used by 60 minutes and CBS were used to incriminate Bush. These are the documents that may be forged (and it is beginning to look like in fact they were forged.) IF there is a connection between these (probably) forged documents and the Kerry camp than all hell is going to break loose.
  6. Sep 10, 2004 #5


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    I'd been ignoring this issue because I figured it was just more of the same baseless innuendo about mabye he was/mabye he wasn't awol, but wow. This could be big.

    So far no evidence, though, about where this came from, so no reason to pin it on Kerry. I don't consider him to be very bright, but I have a hard time believing he'd be this stupid - I'd more likely expect such a thing from one of his private backers. MoveOn.org, for example.
  7. Sep 10, 2004 #6
    I read the Blog, and the stupid fool who forged the document appeared to have used MS Word on a computer. The memo features kerning. KERNING! On a typewriter?

    Here's more:

    CBS had better apologize before it is too late. A simple scan with a naked eyeball would have revealed the forgery. In fact, the irresponsibility displayed by CBS makes me wonder if they aren't open to lawsuit.
  8. Sep 10, 2004 #7
    You're right but this quote from the American Spectator doesn't help.

    BOLDING Mine -
  9. Sep 10, 2004 #8


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    Just FYI this story actually broke at freerepublic.com
    That's where Powerlineblog got it's lead on the story.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
  10. Sep 10, 2004 #9


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    No, I just screwed up. Didn't read fully before blurting...hence the delete, but you were too fast for me.
  11. Sep 10, 2004 #10
    On Hannity's show, the son of the Lt. Col. claims that not only was he contacted by CBS before the story broke, they ignored his testimony when they found out that he wouldn't back the story. He also claims his mother was contacted in a similar fashion.

    If true (and this is direct testimony), then CBS has a bigger credibilty problem than I thought.
  12. Sep 12, 2004 #11
    Paper size

    I was in military duiring this time and we used different size paper in the typewriters, 8 x 10.5 I think. Any word on the size of paper these are written on?
  13. Sep 12, 2004 #12
    I've been following this else where:


    http://homepage.mac.com/cfj/.Pictures/aug-18-1973-memo.gif [Broken]

    And open up MS word...ta da!
    http://homepage.mac.com/cfj/.Pictures/aug181973memo-word.gif [Broken]

    The spacing is not just similar—it is identical in every respect

    And continue forth:

    Get your 25,000 dollars if you can type this memo on a machine available in 1972
    http://defeatjohnjohn.com/pageone.htm [Broken]

    For the people all giddy about "existing" personnell files:
    http://defeatjohnjohn.com/djj1/proofb.gif [Broken]

    Click the links, plenty more fodder :)
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
  14. Sep 12, 2004 #13
    Does anyone know if a Federal law has been violated, if these memos prove to be bogus? Could we be witnessing the opening scene in the defrocking of St. Danny of CBS.
  15. Sep 12, 2004 #14
    From the Boston Globe.


    Please take special note of this quote from Drudge


    Then there are questions about the substance found in the memos themselves – never mind they seem to have been done in WORD.


    And recall, the typewriter used during the 70s that produced this memo will have to have ALL of the absolute state of the art features mentioned – all in one package. Not only that but those features would have had to have the culminating result of looking exactly like an MS WORD document AND they would have had to have been used by a guy who couldn’t even type.

    I’m still waiting for CBS to reveal the source of these documents.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2004
  16. Sep 12, 2004 #15


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    Yes, I would consider it very premature to put this on Kerry or even his supporters. It does look alot like retaliation for the "swiftboat Vets" business, but it might not be. It might even be a ploy by the right to discredit the left. Some conservative may have written the documents so the liberals would produce them and bring about the ridicule they now face.

    But even if that is the case, and this is a conservative plot to expose the questionable practices of the left, and show that the media has a liberal bias, it has succeeded. The DNC got these obvious forgeries and rushed them to the media without even giving them a casual glance to see that they are fake. The media put the docs on primetime with similar disregard. I can't imagine "60 Minutes" would have put out a story like this without bothering to verify their sources if the story were about Kerry.
  17. Sep 13, 2004 #16
    The man named in a disputed memo as exerting pressure to "sugarcoat" George W. Bush's military record left the Texas Air National Guard a year and a half before the memo supposedly was written, his service record shows....

    Kinda smacks of those documents Bush and Powell submitted to the UN as PROOF of Iraq's WMD development programmes, eh? The signatory of that document had been retired from his position for a decade! So, what's your beef?
  18. Sep 13, 2004 #17
    Note that every other typed document Killian creates during his career is from a different typewriter. Only when Killian decides that he is going to be critical of Bush does he go into his closet and bring out this 'Typewriter On Steroids' (which has yet to surface) -- which he then uses to type the six documents critical of Bush. Too bad Killian isn't here to confirm that.
  19. Sep 13, 2004 #18
    You have absolutely nothing to add concerning the Killian documents FaverWillets? So instead you post an off-topic bash of Bush. Mighty brave of you.

    Now concerning your attempt to change the subject of the thread ---- please start your Bush bashing thread elsewhere on the board --- or, heck, pick one of the numerous Bush bashing threads already in existence. I'll even come over and take a look and if your allegation is credibly supported, I'll probably respond. Otherwise, if you actually have something of substance to add to THIS subject, please feel free.
  20. Sep 13, 2004 #19
    The difference is the CBS memos are suspect frauds, while the Powell documents are bona fide.
  21. Sep 13, 2004 #20
    It sounds like we're both on the same side. Bush is a slug, he's always been a slug, and he's always going to be a slug.
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