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Darwin or not?

  1. Sep 29, 2005 #1

    EL

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    http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,706204,00.html

    According to Pew Forum 48% of the American's believe in Darwin's theory of evolution. 42% believes that the human was created in current shape by a higher power and after that never evolved. (If you just ask white christians the later number is 70%.)
    It would be nice to see some numbers from other countries too. How is it where you live? I would guess about 90% believe in Darwin here.
     
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  3. Sep 30, 2005 #2

    matthyaouw

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    I don't have any figures, but as far as I know, belief in evolution is very high where I live.
     
  4. Sep 30, 2005 #3
    Where I live evolution isn't a "belief".
     
  5. Sep 30, 2005 #4

    EL

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    What do you mean?
     
  6. Oct 1, 2005 #5
    it's called theory of evolution, so it's a theory u see
     
  7. Oct 1, 2005 #6

    EL

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    So why can't you say you believe in a theory?
    Or is this about that the word "belief" is different from the word "believe", i.e. just a spelling error?
     
  8. Oct 1, 2005 #7

    HallsofIvy

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    I notice that none of these responders give any hard evidence. Certainly, a large percentage of the people I interact with everyday accept evolution but I live in the U.S.A. and I wouldn't be at all surprised at the figures given. Do you have any clear evidence that other people, perhaps people with very low educational levels or people belonging to "cults", that you never meet do not make up a fair proportion of "where you live" or believe in evolution?
     
  9. Oct 1, 2005 #8

    selfAdjoint

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    In about 1978 I had occasion to go to lunch wih my collegues at the data center where we all worked. These were all college graduates, engineers, systems analysts and such. The conversation at table turned to evolution and I was shocked to discover that I was the only one there who believed in it. The engineers brought up that old chestnut the design of the eye, some were Christians and couldn't accept an "atheist" idea, and so on. So don't comfort yourself that it's only the ignorant - the OTHERS - who deny evolution; your neighbors are just as likely to.
     
  10. Oct 2, 2005 #9
    oh no my fault for not being so clear. i was comparing the theory of evolution to creationism, which is purely a belief.
     
  11. Oct 2, 2005 #10
    What I meant was where I come from no one asks you "Do you believe evolution?". The closest we get is "Have you about it yet?"
     
  12. Oct 2, 2005 #11

    Pengwuino

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    So how does that make any connection as to what people believe in? That's like saying if no one asks you if you like Toyotos, that everyone enjoys crappy automobiles. :tongue2:

    I really wonder how depressing peoples lives must be if they know about everyones preferences about issues like these. I know 2 friends that are democrats. Everyone else, i have absolutely no clue about. I have no clue about everyones belief in Evolution and Creationism (notice how I didn't ignorantly say 'or'). I am utterly clueless as to what music people like except for those who cram it down your throat everytime you mention a song you heard recently that you liked and they feel like you are on the verge of monopolizing their opinions on musical genres by saying you like a certain song. I'm also very sure no one knows the same information about me either. I really don't understand how people can "know" all this stuff about other people supposedly.
     
  13. Oct 2, 2005 #12
    You’re seriously missing the point. The whole issue is not whether you like coffee or tea, but public education on the theory of evolution.
     
  14. Oct 2, 2005 #13
    Yeah... Again, where I come from Evolution and Creationism isn't a preference, it's a matter of education.
     
  15. Oct 2, 2005 #14

    EL

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    If you ment to write "Have you learned about it yet?" I get you. If not, I don't... :shy:
     
  16. Oct 2, 2005 #15

    marcus

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    there was a relevant post at Cosmic Variance today

    http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/02/the-world-eyes-american-ignorance/

    part of the post is about the statistics on Ignorance in the USA.

    part of the post is about the pro-evolution stance of a retired Episcopalian Bishop named J.S.Spong

    what other religious leaders do you know who are in Spong's league evolutionwise?

    http://tildblog.blogspot.com/2005/09/intelligent-christianity-spong-who.html

    here is Spong website, he has some gay activist stuff from the looks of it, so he may champion several causes.

    http://secure.agoramedia.com/spong/...o=8E8054FA-64A6-4100-9B08-37F4592A6F13&email=
     
  17. Oct 6, 2005 #16

    Moonbear

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    Technically, that would be very unscientific. It would indicate an inherent bias in your ability to objectively evaluate the theory if you "believe in" it. Instead, it is more a situation that we accept the current theory as correct because it is the only theory that 1) has withstood repeated challenges and 2) fits with all the evidence available, 3) no alternative explanation fits for both 1 and 2.

    Now, here's the challenge...as a scientist, we are trained to always be a skeptic, we should question everything, including the theory of evolution. We should not just believe it without question or stop challenging it. On the other hand, someone who believes in Creationism (or any other alternative faith-based, as opposed to evidence-based, explanation) views us saying that as saying we ourselves doubt evolution is correct. To them, belief is everything...if they are proponents of Creationism, they aren't overly concerned if the evidence fits or not. So, there's a challenge in sounding sufficiently confident that evolution is the best theory available, which it is, without turning it into a case of "my beliefs vs your beliefs."
     
  18. Oct 6, 2005 #17
    Well, I disagree there, because many athiests depend on the "faith" of evolutionism to be true. They review the facts and the evidence supporting Darwinism, and many think that has more going for it then Christianity. But some of those athiests may have left Christianity to become an evolutionist. Therefore, they have faith that evolutionism is true because if they are wrong and Christianity was right, then they will end up spending an eternity in hell. Sometimes evolutionism becomes a religion to some people rather then a theory. So I guess depending on the person and the circumstances, you can "believe" in Darwinism. There are some things in this world that can never be proved. Christianity cannot prove everything either with the bible.
     
  19. Oct 6, 2005 #18

    selfAdjoint

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    I beleive in evolution because (a) the mechanism works; whenever you have reproduction by combining definitions with random variation combined with competition with winners going on to the future and losers falling by the wayside, you get "hereditary change" to the point that descendent populations can't combine definitions - i.e you get species. And this has been demonstrated by computer simulations. And (b) the hypotheses of the mechanism are present in natural organisms, so it wil presumable work there. And (c) the genomes from yeast to humans show massive similarities with subtle variation and if you organize the variations by similarity you get the chain of evolutionary ancestry.

    So how is that "religious faith?" Looks like taking the evidence seriously, to me.
     
  20. Oct 6, 2005 #19

    EL

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    Sure, but I've never claimed "believing" to be scientific. My objection was to the statement made by sssddd (which he later explained wasn't what he ment) that since it is a theory one can not believe in it. Of course you can believe in Darwin's theory of evolution (in the same way as people believe in God or Santa), although it's not a scientific thing to do.
     
  21. Oct 6, 2005 #20
    Typo.... yes...
     
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