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Deadly Force law in florida

  1. Oct 2, 2005 #1
    This is insane.

    Why do we think we're civilised, again?


    Also, a distinction between this and an older law ( that says you can kill an intruder into your home) is that if a person 'threatens' you in your personal space --- regardless of what property you are on - you now have legal right to kill them.

    I'd like to know how you demonstrate after the fact that the person was really threatening you.
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2005
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  3. Oct 2, 2005 #2

    Ivan Seeking

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    This is one issue where I side with the Reps.

    I grew up in LA and can't imagine living without a weapon. I have been attacked and threatend by gang members and I know how dangerous these people can be. For a time I also had to work on mobile CAT scanners parked outside of county hospitals. A cop local to one of these areas once told me I was nuts to work there while unarmed. And there were several very terrifying episodes of encounters with gangs under those circumstances.

    There are times when life and death choices have to be made in a moment that are easy to second guess later. So, I can see why there are reasons to pass such a law. Frankly, if someone threatens my life, as far as I'm concerned they chose to chance being killed. If I felt that I have a better chance of survival by killing rather than by running, I would have no problem pulling the trigger.
  4. Oct 2, 2005 #3
    Unless you are very fast, running away is not a good option.

    I have lived on the streets and am very street savvy. I am able to avoid most problems by attitude and presence. That said, if they know they are stronger there could be a problem. I would like the option of shooting them without being prosecuted.

    On the other hand I can see how this law can be abused by the criminal element in Florida.
  5. Oct 2, 2005 #4
    My concern is that this becomes an easy excuse to kill people.

    how do you assess that the person was threatening you, after he's dead? In some cases there will be no witnesses.
  6. Oct 2, 2005 #5
    florida just legalized murder. land of the free indeed.
  7. Oct 2, 2005 #6
    But also - this is exactly the tactic we've taken in Iraq.

    i.e. "the way to defeat terrorism is to attack it." It doesn't seemt o be working.

    If we need to lower gang activity, we should not go about it by killing them.
  8. Oct 3, 2005 #7


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    Self defense has always been a legitimate defense for a murder charge. And I rather suspect (Smurf) that it is a legitimate defense virtually everywhere. It is morally right and it just plain makes sense. This new law changes very little.
  9. Oct 3, 2005 #8


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  10. Oct 3, 2005 #9
    In Canada we have something known as 'excessive force'.

    from the link:
    Without reading the actual bill, I'm assuming that people won't even be investigated? That's bull****, it's legal murder. Self defence is a legal defence - you use it in court.

    If you kill someone you should be prosecuted (obvious exceptions) and if you're innocent you should get off. That's how it works, these short cuts serve only to undermine the legal system and create loop holes.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2005
  11. Oct 3, 2005 #10


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    hehe, cute canadians.

    If someone came at you with a knife, all of a sudden the knife-wielding maniac is going to be the poor victim if you kill him? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

    This is a great law. My aunt has a friend that was thrown in jail because he shot at some punk on her property tryen to steal his stuff.

    But then again this does kinda go against the theory that all criminals must be helped out in everyway possible and spend the least amount of time in discomfort as possible.
  12. Oct 3, 2005 #11
    .... good! :confused:
  13. Oct 3, 2005 #12
    no, can't see that happening actually. unless the courts are too corrupt to give a fair trial.
  14. Oct 3, 2005 #13


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    Oh yah, i forgot.. canadians defend criminals instead of victims!
  15. Oct 3, 2005 #14
    Aunt's friend loses some "stuff".... kid gets shot and possibly killed.... Now, you obviously think the guy who has to buy a new TV is the victim - Me, I'm going to side with the person who loses their life.

    In Canada we consider a person's life to be more valuable than someone's "stuff", no matter the situation.
  16. Oct 3, 2005 #15


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    Well here in reality, we consider someone trespassing and taking things as a rather bad thing. We don't think that people should be hugged and supported after they go break into peoples houses.
  17. Oct 3, 2005 #16
    I'm wll aware of America's stance towards property. It's commodification is slowly spreading and infecting the rest of the world too. That's you're reality, I'll stick to mine - where my life is more valuable than a person's stuff.
  18. Oct 3, 2005 #17


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    And what makes you think that the burglar isn't ready to take your life too? Or let me guess, might as well let your family die because you don't want to risk hurting such a well-meaning human being such as the criminal.
  19. Oct 3, 2005 #18
    The thing is, you should always try everything possible before using deadly force, there are a few reasons. Bassically, if you kill someone, you could get sued in civil court and pay your ass off with all the fees involved in this.

    If your aunt's friend was charged for shooting someone who was stealing stuff, and not threatening his life, than he deserves it. What the hell, what kind of person shoots someone for stealing their stuff????? Killing someone should only be used when you are sure you or someone else will be severely hurt or dead if you don't act with deadly force, that's it, no exceptions. If someone steals a tv, you don't shoot them, you could simply threaten to shoot them and try to stop them(or hit them with a bat or something).

    I absolutely do NOT think criminals should EVER get off for their crimes, but their lives shouldn't be brought to an end simply because they stole something. I feel bad for you because you live in California though, where you don't have any rights.... I know where you are coming from to a certain degree, because California defense laws are rather...idiotic.
  20. Oct 3, 2005 #19
    I'm actually completely unafraid of any such occurance. Funny how all of Canada's snuggling up to criminals has resulted in vastly lower crime rates than the US. We must be doing something wrong.
    I don't have a family. I also never said I wouldn't defend myself.
  21. Oct 3, 2005 #20
    How about calling the cops and taking his liscence plate? :rolleyes: americans...
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