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Debunking Gem Therapy

  1. Sep 7, 2009 #1
    It’s a fact that doctors use 528 hz to stimulate DNA to heal itself so I guess this could somewhat amount to a scientific background to this...

    I know when they make watches they blast the quartz with frequency till they get it set to 32768hz for a quartz watch.


    I have seen claims different gems can help cure disease allegedly because they are naturally vibrating on a certain frequency that is beneficial in the treatment of the disease on the cellular level.

    I think this natural “vibration / frequency “ of the Gems can be debunked if I can get an answer to these two questions...

    1. Is it true that rubies, emeralds, and amethysts all have a general frequency range that they vibrate at?

    Like for example is there a scientific chart that will show something like : rubies are usually around 10000hz and emerald is usually around 30000hz and amethyst is usually around 15000 hz or something like that for example?

    2. Is this all fake info and these gems don't have a general range that’s common among all gems of that type and rubies, emeralds, and amethysts all have random vibrations all over the place anywhere from 1000hz to 50000hz?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 7, 2009 #2

    negitron

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    No, this is not a fact. This is garbage "science" with no basis in reality.

    The rest of your post just goes downhill from there and most of it was already answered in your other thread:
    https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=335427
     
  4. Sep 7, 2009 #3

    LeonhardEuler

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    It is true that there are certain charicteristic frequencies that different solids will absorb light at because they are associated with certain transitions in the material. This is why different gems appear with different colors.

    However, the connection between that and some illness seems extremely tenuous. I have no idea what you are talking about when you say "It’s a fact that doctors use 528 hz to stimulate DNA to heal itself". What exactly is possesing a frequency of 528 Hz? Is it sound, or electromagnetic radiation, or current, or what? Those would all be completely different and have completely different effects. You can't just "blast something with frequency". There has to be a definite thing that is repeating at x cycles per second to talk about a frequency of x Hz (or at least something that has units of inverse seconds).

    In addition to the characteristic frequencies at which a solid will absorb light, there are also characteristic mechanical frequencies at which the object will vibrate most strongly in response to a signal of force at that frequency. In addition to being dependent on the material, it will also depend on the size and shape of the object. So it is not really a charcteristic frequency of the material, but of the object.

    But all of these things will have almost no effect if you just put a gem next to you.
     
  5. Sep 7, 2009 #4

    russ_watters

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    That's just word salad - those words mixed together may technically form a complete sentence, but do not form a coherent thought.
     
  6. Sep 7, 2009 #5
    Thanks for pointing out that it is not a fact that 528 hz helps DNA, can you site a link to your proof that the doctors claiming this are a fraud? ( I don't know who originally makes this claim about the 528 hz but it would be nice to see that its been genuinely debunked... )

    Never the less if the 528 hz study is a fraud... THATS ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT TO MY TWO QUESTIONS!!!!

    AND if you LEARN to read you can look a little closer at my other post and you will see that nether one of the questions asked has been directly answered at all so your statement that

    "it was already answered in your other thread:"

    is GARBAGE!!!

    Can someone please answer my questions without side-stepping them…. !

    Insults deleted by Ivan
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2009
  7. Sep 7, 2009 #6
    Sorry Russ, about the word salad I totally agree with you. I dont know exactly how the watch makers apply the frequency to the quartz to get it to 32768 hz, or what kind of frequency they use if its sound or electromagnetic or whatever, the person that told me used the word "blast". Maybe you can tell me exactly what they meant when they told me,

    "when they make watches they blast the quartz with frequency till they get it set to 32768hz for a quartz watch"
     
  8. Sep 7, 2009 #7

    Ivan Seeking

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    That isn't how it works. The original claim is what requires definitive evidence. We would need a papers published in appropriate journals. Since that claim sounds not only obscure, but silly, and since it is allegedly a scientific claim, we assume it to be false unless someone can provide credible evidence otherwise.

    Your question was answered by LeonEuler but apparently you just don't understand the answer. The next problem is that since you don't understand the related science, your question really didn't make sense.

    What do you mean by vibrate? The problem is that you don't know. You just don't understand that you don't know.

    Yes [To the best of my ability to understand your questions]

    They are not random. If we are talking about mechanical vibrations, the resonant frequencies are determined by shape, size, type of material, etc. If we mean electromagnetic frequencies, then we are talking about the color we see when we look at the gem, which again is determined by the characteristics [properties] of the material.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2009
  9. Sep 7, 2009 #8

    Hepth

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    Not really. If you're talking about the natural frequency of a material, including gems, it depends on not only the material itself (or rather the dispersion/ velocity of phonon vibration, sort of like the speed of sound in the crystal) but also the SIZE and SHAPE of the material itself. A cube of some material and a rhomboid of the same material will have different natural frequencies. As will another cube of the material slightly larger/smaller.
    Basics of natural frequencies:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_frequency
    Quartz : http://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/quartz-crystal-characteristics.htm [Broken]

    Exactly. Its all fake. Theres nothing "common" about the speed of sound in a crystal other than its all calculated by the same physics. Not only the atoms/molecules involved, but the lattice seperation/spacing and the organization method (FCC/BCC/HCP/etc). If two different crystals of the same size happen to have frequencies in a range it is merely because atom spacing in crystals are in the same range. You can actually do all of the calculations by hand, in not too long of time, in any basic Solid State Physics course.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  10. Sep 7, 2009 #9

    Ivan Seeking

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    This helps to explain how quartz crystal oscillators work

    http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/gadgets/clocks-watches/quartz-watch2.htm
     
  11. Sep 7, 2009 #10
    Thanks for the response LeonhardEuler,
    You say

    "In addition to being dependent on the material, it will also depend on the size and shape of the object."

    So I will rephrase my two unanswered questions...


    1.Assumming that all gems mentioned in this question are of the exact
    same size and shape... Is it true that these same shape and sized rubies, emeralds, and amethysts would all have a general frequency range that they vibrate at?

    Like for example is there a scientific chart that will show something like : rubies of the same shape and size are usually around 10000hz and emeralds of the same shape and size are usually around 30000hz and amethysts of the same shape and size are usually around 15000 hz or something like that for example?

    2.Assumming that all gems mentioned in this question are of the exact
    same size and shape... Is it true that these same sized, same shaped gems would not have a general range that’s common among all gems of their type and rubies, emeralds, and amethysts all have random vibrations all over the place anywhere from 1000hz to 50000hz?
     
  12. Sep 7, 2009 #11
    Thanks Ivan

    You say

    “What do you mean by vibrate? The problem is that you don't know. You just don't understand that you don't know. “

    In reference to my question #1.

    ( Is it true that rubies, emeralds, and amethysts all have a general frequency range that they vibrate at? )

    Your right I don't know what I mean exactly by “ vibrate “ in this question, that’s all the pseudoscience websites say…

    Let me ask you this…
    What all can I mean by vibrate in this question? I assume that all vibrations can be expressed in frequency but I guess I don't know what kind of frequency I am talking about…

    How many different kinds of frequencies can I be asking about here? I thought that basically when I ask what frequency is this ruby vibrating at I am ether asking what kind of “sound” frequency is coming off it , or what kind of frequency are its “atoms” vibrating at? Is there some other frequency I could be asking about like what kind of “electromagnetic frequency” is coming off it? Or what kind of frequency of “light” is bouncing off it?

    Please go easy on me I don't take this in school and I never will Im just a construction worker but remember, Albert Einstein even said, “If you cant explain it to a bar maid you don't really know what your talking about.”
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2009
  13. Sep 7, 2009 #12

    LeonhardEuler

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    No, they will not really vibrate at their resonant frequencies unless driven. There may be extremely tiny mechanical vibrations normally present due to ambient sound, but the effect would be negligibly small. If you wanted to vibrate a person's skin at a certain frequency it would be much more efficient to just play a tone of that frequency on a speaker. I can't imagine any beneficial effect of this on most diseases. There are, of course, kidney stones which can be broken up by sound waves, but most diseases are not so simple. There is no reason to expect exposure to a certain sound to cure, say, cancer.
     
  14. Sep 7, 2009 #13

    Hepth

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    A most naieve model would employ a simple fundamental frequency :
    [tex]
    f=\frac{v}{4 L}
    [/tex]

    and a dispersion relation (Speed of sound):

    [tex]
    v=\sqrt{\frac{E_Y}{\rho}}
    [/tex]
    Where Ey is youngs modulus of the material and rho is the density.
    I get for some random things like ruby and zirconia, at say an inch cube sample:

    Ruby : 102876. _Hz
    Zirconia : 58066. _Hz

    bascially find out the young's modulus and the average density of the material and with a "size", one side of a cube, can give you A vibrational mode. It is only ONE.

    If you can get all of the data, you can calculate it by hand.
     
  15. Sep 7, 2009 #14

    negitron

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    And you should also understand that even given the above, a crystal won't just sit there and vibrate indefinitely at its mechanical resonance--it requires input to do so.
     
  16. Sep 8, 2009 #15

    Chronos

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    So, what instrument would you connect to one of these magical crystals to test your hypothesis? And what result would you expect? And what equation do you propose to explain the results?
     
  17. Sep 8, 2009 #16

    CEL

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  18. Sep 15, 2009 #17
    Hi thanks for the link

    :)
     
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