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Declassified files: The end of conspiracy

  1. Dec 29, 2006 #1
    If all of the gov files from the 1940’s are declassified, will this put an end to the Philadelphia Experiment debate? 1980’s- Project Montauk
    What about the millions of government cover-ups on UFO’s?
    I think there will still be claims about a government cover-up to cover-up the government cover-ups.
    What if the documents revealed that all of the loons where right? We have been in contact with aliens for over 50 years and if you want to live on Mars all you have to do is buy a ticket.

    Just remember: Mars ain’t the kind of place to raise your kids.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Dec 29, 2006 #2

    russ_watters

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    There is no Philadelphia Experiment debate.

    And that's exactly the point: conspiracy theory is an entity unto itself. It doesn't matter how open or closed a government is, it will always exist.
     
  4. Dec 29, 2006 #3

    Ivan Seeking

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    There was no Phili experiment and that subject is banned here.

    As for UFOs, were it true that we have been or are being visited, it would certainly be one of the most important, if not the most important revelation in human history.

    One reason that the UFO phenomenon doesn't go away is that people claim to see them every day.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2006
  5. Dec 29, 2006 #4

    Ivan Seeking

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    I think the Iran '76 documents show that whatever is going on, the government isn't hiding the information.
    http://www.nsa.gov/ufo/ufo00020.pdf

    ...as opposed to this document, which seems to be protecting information.
    http://www.nsa.gov/ufo/ufo00013.pdf

    From what I can tell, the only information hidden is that critical to US security, and private information about individuals. But then again, many of those "loons" making claims are former military and intelligence personnel who claim to have direct knowledge of specific events, and at times, high ranking people who would be believed in almost any other context; as in the case of Admiral Lord Hill-Norton; Former chief of the British Defense Staff, and former Chairman of the NATO miltitary committee, who says this:

    [the Bentwaters case: http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/foi/ufo/dep_ba1.pdf
    the full(?) set of the Ministry of Defense files are also linked in the UFO Napster stickied at the top of the main page]

     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2006
  6. Dec 29, 2006 #5

    Ivan Seeking

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    Also, there is the Brookings Report to consider.
    http://www.anomalies.net/brookings/brookings_summary.pdf
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brookings_Report
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2006
  7. Jan 2, 2007 #6

    russ_watters

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    A more interesting question would be the opposite question: does a culture of openness and freedom foster conspiracy theory?

    AFAIK, conspiracy theory is a uniquely American phenomena. And America is also unique in its peoples' passion for their freedom. I think the two phenomena are related.
     
  8. Jan 2, 2007 #7

    D H

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    Interesting hypothesis. Corruption/conspiracy is widespread in most countries of the world and has occurred in all countries. The fear of corruption/conspiracy is universal. People don't talked about it openly where it is rampant (they will come and get you). Since we can talk about it, we do, and some see it where it doesn't exist.
     
  9. Jan 10, 2007 #8
    Why is the Philadelphia experiment banned? You say there was no Philadelphia experiment like you were there. I am not saying the boat vanished or anything, I am just saying there may have been a ship with high power coils hooked to it, let alone the existence of a project for radar invisibility. Definitely not out of the question. Whatever. Let’s talk about UFO's! That is way more scientifically possible.
     
  10. Jan 10, 2007 #9
    check your European history- nobody touches the French- all that Templar Grail / secret masters of the world stuff started there
     
  11. Jan 10, 2007 #10

    russ_watters

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    The issue is relatively clear-cut and therefore there isn't anything to discuss - all you need to know you can find on Google (or in the previous threads that are linked in the Guidelines). Allowing such discussion fosters/attracts crackpottery and we do not want to do that here. Yes, I understand that people with a real desire to learn won't get the chance, but the harm of fostering crackpottery far outweighs the harm of not being able to help a few people who legitimately want to know about it. We know this from experience, which is how subjects come to be banned.
     
  12. Jan 11, 2007 #11

    Ivan Seeking

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    Yes, the Philadelphia experiment has been so thoroughly debunked that in the absence of even compelling anecdotal evidence, there is is no legitimate case to be made. In the case of UFOs we have official military and government files from about a dozen agencies [NSA. CIA, FBI, DOD, USAF, MOD and others], we also have photographic evidence, videos, RADAR data, radiation data, official investigations under three separate government projects [one of which - project Sign - concluded that some UFOs are likely crafts flown by ETs], and many orders of magnitude more human testimony by highly credible witnesses. Also, the subject has a following of qualified scientists with a few of particular note. Finally, to review the UFO phenomenon is not to automatically suggest that any are crafts flown by aliens. Many observations of natural and interesting phenomena, such as ball lighting and earthlights, have been filed as UFO reports in the past.

    In the case of the Philadelphia experiment, we have the specific claim that a ship disappeared and appeared somewhere else…etc etc etc, due to a secret experiment. But in the end we only have the single source for this story - Carlos Miguel Allende - whose story is corroborated by hearsay which originated with two drunk sailors. The invisibility experiments refer to efforts to make ships less visible at sea by using various colors of paint and different patterns. The large coils often mentioned were for degaussing the ship to help protect it from magnetically sensitive mines. Also, the records and former crew indicate that the USS Eldridge was never in Philadelphia.

    If anyone feels that they have new or compelling evidence to suggest that anything interesting happened, please send me a private message and I will look into it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2007
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