Solving Detached Train Cart Problem: Find Distance

In summary, the conversation discusses a problem involving a train of known mass and velocity being pulled by a locomotive with known power. A single cart gets detached and the question is how far it will go before coming to a stop. The conversation covers various attempts at solving the problem, including finding the coefficient of kinetic friction and using conservation of energy. However, the final answer given in the key does not match the calculations and there is confusion about the correct answer.
  • #1
Totally
26
2
1. The problem statement, all variables and given/known
A train of mass M is moving at uniform velocity v, being pulled by a locomotive with power P. A single cart of mass m gets detached. How far will it go before coming to stop? M, v, P and m are known.


The attempt at a solution
I know I'll need to find coeff. of kinetic friction in order to find the sliding distance. The force on the train before the cart gets detached is
\begin{equation*}
F-F_f=0
\end{equation*}
\begin{equation*}
\dfrac{P}{v}-\mu Mg=0
\end{equation*}
\begin{equation*}
\mu=\dfrac{P}{vMg}
\end{equation*}
Now, after the cart is detached I'm trying to use conservation of energy to find the distance
\begin{equation*}
\dfrac{1}{2}mv^2-\mu mgd=0
\end{equation*}
\begin{equation*}
d=\dfrac{v^2}{2\mu g}
\end{equation*}
Plugging in the $ \mu $ expression I get
\begin{equation*}
d=\dfrac{Mv^3}{2\mu P}
\end{equation*}
Using the M, v, P given initially and the kinetic friction that I found from the first part, I get the distance roughly 2.2 times too short when compared to the answer key. I'm sure I did the SI conversions correctly. Any ideas?
 
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  • #2
All good except for that µ in the denominator. It should have disappeared. :oops::oops:
 
  • #3
Ah, right, I just substituted it :)) But nevertheless, the answer still does not fit. Should I take it as a mistake in the key? I made an assumption that the velocity is uniform because it said "constant power." I don't think it would be possible to solve it if we say that
\begin{equation*}
F-F_f=ma
\end{equation*}
because there is no way to determine the acceleration from given data.
 
  • #4
Since we don't have any numbers, it's difficult to check the calculation.
We also don't have the complete problem statement (the 'constant' power appeared out of nowhere). Anyway, once the wagon is detached it doesn't matter :smile:.

What you need for your formulas to be applicable is constant friction force.
Since you have no indication that assumption is not allowed, all you can do is make it. (but it's disputable).

Numerically I get 3.2 km for a 400 tonne train moving at 144 km/h when P is 4 MW (##\mu## = 0.025)
 
  • #5
Using 600t at 40km/h when P is 10MW, I'm getting 41.14 meters.
 
  • #6
Must be with the brakes on ! ##\mu## = 0.153
And I do get the same result but find it hard to believe: the deceleration is 1.5 m/s2

But we get the same values with the same expressions.
And the answer key claims 90 m ?

Could you post the full problem statement ?
 
  • #7
The key demands 600m, what I got before was due leaving the mu in after substitution.

"A train, with a mass of 600t, is moving on a straight, horizontal track at the speed of 40km/h. The locomotive power is constant: 10MW. Suddenly, the last cart with a mass of 60t gets detached. The breaking system fails, and the train of 9 wagons continues onward. The last cart lags behind, gradually getting slower and slower. How far will this cart go until it comes to a full stop?"
 
  • #8
That's a bit more than a factor of 2.2 !

Can't make sense of the book answer: 10 MJ/s / (40/3.6 m/s) = 900000 N to pull 600 t, so 90000 N to pull 60 t, so a deceleration of 1.5 m/s .
10/9 m/s divided by 1.5 m/s is a standstill in 7.41 s.
SUVAT eqn gives 41.15 m.
kinetic energy 0.5 * 60000 * (10/9)2 = 3700000 J = friction * distance gives 41.15 with a friction of 90000 N.

A distance of 600 m would follow from a friction force of 6173 N. Wouldn't know how to obtain that... :confused:

Curious to find out how teacher solves this !
 
  • #9
Wouldn't be the first problem with a wrong answer. Just had one where, according to the key, a guy could swim faster against a current than in still water. o_O
Glad to know my calculation is solid though, thank you!
 

What is the "Detached Train Cart Problem"?

The "Detached Train Cart Problem" is a mathematical problem that involves finding the distance between two train carts that are moving at different speeds and were initially attached to each other.

What is the formula for solving the Detached Train Cart Problem?

The formula for solving the Detached Train Cart Problem is d = (v1 * t) + (v2 * t), where d is the distance between the two carts, v1 is the speed of the first cart, v2 is the speed of the second cart, and t is the time it takes for the carts to reach their respective positions.

How do you determine the speeds of the train carts?

The speeds of the train carts can be determined by dividing the total distance between the two carts by the time it took for them to reach their positions. This will give you the average speed for each cart, which can then be used in the formula to find the distance between them.

What are the key assumptions in solving the Detached Train Cart Problem?

The key assumptions in solving the Detached Train Cart Problem are that the carts are moving in a straight line, at constant speeds, and there are no external factors such as friction or wind affecting their movements. Additionally, the time it takes for the carts to reach their positions must be known.

What are some real-life applications of the Detached Train Cart Problem?

The Detached Train Cart Problem has real-life applications in fields such as transportation, logistics, and engineering. It can be used to calculate the distance between two moving objects, determine the speed of vehicles, and optimize travel routes for efficiency.

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