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Schools DeVry University?

  1. May 4, 2007 #1
    DeVry University??

    You see Devry commercials all the time. Give your researched opinion. IS it worth going to, poor, or excellent?

    I know they give associates degrees in Business and technology and even bachelors in engineering.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. May 5, 2007 #2
    They don't give a bachelors in engineering...they give a bachelors in engineering technology! BIG difference.
     
  4. May 5, 2007 #3

    Moonbear

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    It's a technical school, not a university. You'd probably pay less and get an equivalent or better education at a community college. There are jobs where that sort of training can be useful, and you can learn a skill you might not have been able to learn otherwise, but consider it training more than education. For example, if you want to work as a court stenographer, it's the sort of place you could learn stenography. If you want a job as a bookkeeper in an office (not an accountant, but bookkeeper), you can learn what you need there. You can probably learn enough about computers there to work user support, or enough about electronics to fix vending machines, etc. These are all useful skills for jobs that we need people to do, so it does serve a purpose in providing that sort of training if that's what you want or need. On the other hand, it will not make you competitive for jobs that require a college degree.

    I'd strongly suggest comparing the cost of community college tuition with their tuition before making a final decision, unless they offer something your community college doesn't and that you need.
     
  5. May 5, 2007 #4
    I think they are accredited as a university. They offer master's degrees too. It is an online program, however.

    I would agree that you should check out community colleges and then look into transferring to a more traditional university.
     
  6. May 5, 2007 #5

    Moonbear

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    Really? That must be somewhat recently changed then. They used to be the DeVry "Institute." I still wouldn't give their program any more credibility than a community college. I have known people who got university degrees and took a class or two at DeVry just to supplement their knowledge with some hands-on practical learning. For example, one was studying electrical engineering, and the program at the university was heavily theory based, but she didn't feel she got the practical, hands-on experience she wanted, so she took a couple summer courses on electronics just to see how the theory translated to practice. So, I'm not knocking it, just pointing out that you have to know what it really is and if it's going to be enough to suit your needs.
     
  7. May 7, 2007 #6
    Well anyway it's accredited and gives you a bachelros in ELECTRONICS engineering. And yes they do provide masters.

    I'm not asking you for advice, I'm asking you cause I've been there. Trust e it was not easy. Akthough I didn't finish I know enough to know it wasn't a community college. It's small and may have the look of a technical school or community college but I'd rank them with a fairly high ranking university.

    Debry is not to be confused with ITT or UTI. WHile they do offer associates in technical trade skills most of theirs is bachelors in business and high end technology. I studyed and we had to do digital programming, electrical engineering , and Calculus. Further down the line they study Physics, and more complex electronic systems. If you're thinking of a vending machine no. A Devry graduate may also be on a drawing room making drafts of microchip components or yes DESIGNING a vending machine.

    By ALL means it wasn't easy. They also offer degrees in Computer Information systems, Telecommunications and now even game design. I don't know of any community colleges giving degrees in game designing.


    And yes when I went they were DeVry Institute. They were highly accredited gave bachelors then. My teachers and all other college graduates said it was a very good school.
    Besies even MIT is an Institute.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2007
  8. May 7, 2007 #7
    From my personal experience, most* graduates from DeVry don't think for themselves. I'm now working for the tech support of an electronics company specializing in lcds and lcd controllers, etc. The stupidest questions which can be answered with either a basic knowlege of electronics or by the manual are usually from someone from DeVry. I'm still in high school and I can answer most of their questions. They show a lack of understanding of fundemental electronics knowledge. They don't understand how anything works.

    MAYBE it has gotten better and these are the people who graduated 10 years ago or something. I don't know.

    It may be hard, but you can make anything hard.

    *By most I don't actually mean above 50% because I really don't have any statistics. heh...


    EDIT: Degrees in game design? You don't need a degree in game design to design games. It sounds a lot more like a trade school type of deal than a real degree to me.
     
  9. May 7, 2007 #8
    they don't give BS degrees in engineering...they give BS degrees in engineering technology (less theoretical more hand-on)....there's a very big difference between the two. An engineering degree teaches you how to be an engineer whereas an engineering technology degree teaches you how to be a technician. However, the engineering technology degree offered by Devry is probably equilvalent in coursework to an ET program at any other university (most schools with engineering degrees also offer ET Degrees), and is probably fully accredited to provide an ET program.....the accreditation for engineering is a lot different. I'm not knocking the ET track...we need skilled technicians that test the systems the engineers design, and the techs often even assist with the designs.

    But compare the ET degree curriculum at any university with their engineering degree curriculum. You will see a lot more math, physics, and more theoretical engineering coursework. Pretty much every university offers an ET degree, but nowhere near as many offer "engineering" degrees. Also, check out ITT tech's degree programs...they don't offer engineering degrees.

    Also, if you put "BS Electronics Engineering" on your resume then you are lying and that is grounds for termination if someone finds out after you are hired.

    EVERY EE course ETs take is different than the EE courses EEs take....there is no overlap. Also, there's a different math sequence, and less math. In engineering classes every theorem is rigorously proved, whereas in the ET classes things are often handwaved or glossed over. I bet ETs get very little exposure to FTs and the more mathematical side of signal analysis, for instance.

    I know people that were formerly in EE programs and switched to EET since they weren't good at or didn't care for the math and more abstract topics.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2007
  10. May 7, 2007 #9
    I just checked their website and all they offer is "engineering technology" degrees. If they ever told you (perhaps your advisor) on paper that you were getting an engineering degree, I would sue them immediately.
     
  11. May 7, 2007 #10
    lol yah getting an "engineering technology" degree isn't what your looking for if you were interested in engineering.

    If you would want to do engineering technology I would suggest just going to a technical school. Well I guess DeVry might be considered that as well.
     
  12. May 8, 2007 #11
    Well that has a technical degree. It was called an ET for Engineering Technology and was an associates.. Then there was EET or Electronics Engineering Technology and was a bachelors. There was drafting and learning C which I doubt technicians do.

    DP they make differently or can Electronics Engineers, and Electronics Engineering Technology graduates make the same?
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2007
  13. May 8, 2007 #12
    Why don't you think technicians learn drafting and C? Those are pretty standard in an ET or EET curriculum. My point is there is a big difference between engineering and engineering tech (whether it's electrical/electronics or mech E or whatever). Look at the curriculum of ET and engineering at a school that offers both. The difference is night and day.

    I am pretty sure the starting salary for technologists is a bit lower than that of engineers, but as time goes on the difference probably narrows.

    Just out of curiosity....have you ever heard of a fourier transform? What about transfer functions or the convolution theorem? LTI system theory? s-domain and frequency domain analysis? I am just curious what it is you covered...you may have heard these things before (they were probably mentioned in your courses since they are rather important concepts) but you might not have covered them with a ton of depth.

    I am not knocking the technology degree....I don't see it as inferior to the engineering degree....they are just different scopes....one of theoretical and the other is hands-on. Many EE majors never even picked up a soldering iron before and really have a difficult time debugging a circuit...all of the engineer's work is done on a computer and a protoboard.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2007
  14. May 8, 2007 #13
    Just to give you an idea, here is circuits 1 and 2 for EEs compared to circ 1 and 2 for EETs at my school

    EET circuits 1 and 2:

    TEE 1023 - Circuits 1
    Introduction to electrical and electronic fundamentals. Basic principles involved in DC circuits, study of networks with multiple sources of emf, the application of Thevenins and Nortons theorems, magnetic circuits, capacitance, inductance and transients in DC circuits.

    TEE 2013 - Circuits 2
    Basic principles involved in AC circuit analysis, phasors, series and parallel circuits, mesh and nodal analysis, network theorems, power, resonance, polyphase systems, and transformer.

    EE Circuits 1 and 2

    EEE 2114 - Circuits 1
    Voltage current, power. Kirchoffs law, Ohms law, resistance independent and dependent sources, operational amplifiers. Formulation and solution of network equations, MathCAD, Spice, linearity and superposition, Thevenins theorems, maximum power transfer. Capacitance, inductance, mutual inductance. Sinusoidal steady state analysis, AC power, three phase systems. Transfer functions, frequency response, Bode diagrams, filters. First order transient responses. Lecture 4 hours.

    EEE 3123 - Circuits 2
    Ramp, step, and impulse functions. Second order transient responses, differential equations, transfer functions, convolution, impulse response. Laplace transforms, Fourier analysis, two-port networks.


    I know those aren't very detailed descriptions and it appears they are similar courses, but I am pretty sure theorems are not rigorously proven in the EET courses, whereas they are rigorously proven in EE courses (from what the technology students tell me).
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2007
  15. May 8, 2007 #14
    That's probably just a bit of an exaggeration. In the physics and math departments, maybe. But in the EE department?
     
  16. May 8, 2007 #15
    I wouldn't say it is an exaggeration. Perhaps not every theorem, but I found that a lot of them were proven rigoriously. Some of our test involved proven certain theorems and then using them in a problem.
     
  17. May 8, 2007 #16
    SO a EET with amasters, is he capable of doing an EE's work? There are not so great EEs and good EETs. Is it possible a EET could do an EEs work at a fundemental level. Nothtat it's the doorway to EE but if an EET worked with or around a EE could he watch and pickup knowledge and move up to an EE's position?

    You're saying EE is somewhat harder and academic. IS there any chance an EET could do some primary or core Electronics Engineering?You say we don't overlap but I aksed the wuestion a year ago could a Physicist do an engineer's job and you all said certainly yes. Now physicists and engineers study the same topics but Science and Engineering are more than halfway different.
     
  18. May 8, 2007 #17
    The quick answer is no, strictly from a legal standpoint. An electrical engineering degree is a professional degree that allows the holder to work as a professional engineer.

    That being said, a lot of engineering graduates (most?) never get certified as professional engineers. On projects where public safety is an issue, their work would need to be reviewed by a professional engineer who would have to sign off on it, basically putting his reputation on the line.

    Most of what I'm learning in my electrical engineering classes is not going to be directly applicable to any job I take after I graduate. No one is going to place a complex 3D circuit schematic in front of me and ask me to tell them the power being dissipated by resistor R79 with nothing more then a calculator, pen and paper. I'm also not going to be doing Fourier transforms by hand or calculating magnetic flux through a cylinder using Gausses law and triple integrals. I don’t expect that I’ll be designing too many full and half wave rectifiers using nothing but a few diodes, a transformer, and some resistors. All of this stuff is done on computers now and you don’t necessarily need to understand the underlying mathematics and physics in order to use the tools, but it doesn’t hurt either.

    Basically what I’ve been told by engineering graduates who are working in industry is, completing an engineering degree shows an employer that you have the skills needed to learn how to be a real engineer from other engineers who have more experience. Based on this, I wouldn’t say it’s impossible to eventually be doing an EE’s job with an EET degree, but it would be unlikely. If you’re an engineering tech with several years experience, you’re going to be getting paid more money then a company could hire a recent EE graduate for. Factor in the costs of hiring someone to replace you (remember, you have a lot of skills that the company has become dependant on) and the fact that you could never be certified as a professional engineer and it’s unlikely a company would be willing to make that jump.

    As others have said, engineers and engineering techs have very different skill sets, career paths, and career goals, there might be some overlap in industry, but they are still very different.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2007
  19. May 8, 2007 #18
    It's not an exaggeration. Perhaps not every theorem, but the majority. This is just the difference between EE and EET.
     
  20. May 8, 2007 #19

    chroot

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    Wow.. there's a lot of posturing and a lot of misinformation being spread in this thread.

    Obviously, Sphereic, you only came here to shamelessly promote your school. That's fine, but you need to temper your rhetoric with a little fact. I really don't intend for this to become a DeVry-bashing session, but, well, you did ask for it.

    leright is correct that DeVry does not offer real engineering degrees. He's also right that a degree in engineering technology does not qualify you even remotely for the same job as a genuine electrical engineer. Sorry to burst your bubble.

    Get real! Electrical engineers take a minimum of 3-4 physics classes, 4-5 calculus and differential equations classes, 3-4 programming classes, etc. Have you ever actually looked at the curriculum for EE at a major university? You may not realize it, but saying "we studied calculus" just makes your case seem weaker.

    I'm a senior staff design engineer for a major integrated circuit manufacturer. Half of our employees hold advanced degrees from universities like Stanford and Cal. I have never met a single DeVry graduate in nearly ten years of experience in my field, and I can virtually promise you no one is going to hire a fresh DeVry grad into design engineering. With ten years of experience in other positions, it might not matter, but you will not initially be able to compete with candidates with bona fide engineering degrees from well-known universities. You can belly-ache all you want, but it's the truth. If you don't like it, go get a bona fide engineering degree from a well-known university. Also -- I just can't help picking on you -- no one uses drafting tables for designing integrated circuits anymore! Welcome to 1970!

    Silliest quote of the thread. If you're actually trying to compare DeVry to MIT by pointing out they both have the word "Institute" in their names... well, I don't know how to respond with civility.

    If two people attain the same master's degree from the same school, they're probably similarly qualified. That said, you'll have a very hard time getting into the same grad school with a DeVry degree.

    Of course. Experience always trumps education in the end. Unfortunately, an EET degree from DeVry will be a 10-year handicap in pay and responsibility, as compared to your peers who hold EE degrees from well-known universities. That's just the cold, hard, honest truth.

    Well, I guess I didn't respond to that thread, but I'd have to say no -- physicists are not directly qualified to do any kind of engineering. Certainly they could probably pick it up pretty quickly, but they're not immediately qualified.

    At least in the US, you must take and pass an additional exam to become a licensed professional engineer. Simply holding a bachelor's does not imply any kind of licensing.

    - Warren
     
  21. May 8, 2007 #20
    Heh, that's exactly what I was thinking. The capitalization of "calculus" didn't help either.
     
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