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Did this soldier cross the line?

  1. Apr 16, 2005 #1

    Pengwuino

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    Ok heres the situation:

    2 Soldiers are just standing around. They pretty much have standard clothing and equpiment on and a normal helmet. About 20 kids run up to them and from about 20 yards away, start hurling fist sized rocks at them. The soldiers respond by first firing a 40mm riot grenade (or bean bag.... im not sure) that hits one guy and gives him a rather nasty gash on teh head. They go back and throw mroe rocks and the guy throws a flashbang grenade about 20 yards away from the kids and they run off.

    People on my home forum say: The soldier shouldnt have done anything and have let the kids throw rocks at him. (thats exactly what they said)

    I say: soldiers were fully justified in their response.

    Notice how i didnt say which country this is in so :P cant argue anything but the situation :D Which view is correct?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Apr 16, 2005 #2
    I think the soldiers were right. Personally I would have killed the kids, and then burned their houses.
     
  4. Apr 16, 2005 #3

    Danger

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    Not enough info about the kids to decide. To me, 95% of the people in this forum are kids. Do you mean pre-teens, t'weens, early teens, or over 17? Also, was the motivation to twit the soldiers, or to injure because they really hate what they stand for?
    For little kids just goofing around, I'd take a run at them the first couple of times to scare them back (just for fun), then ignore them unless they started actually hitting me. They'd soon get bored and go away.
    For a more serious situation with early teens, I'd go with the flash-bangs first, then tear gas or naseau gas or whatever I had along that line.
    If they were older teens intent on causing me physical harm, I'd ask which one was the leader, then kill him. Then I'd ask who was second in command. They'd probably leave.
    A similar situation arose here a few years ago when a gang from Calgary decided that they were going to make my favourite bar their 'turf'. The leader was only hospitalized, but the rest of them never came back. :biggrin:
     
  5. Apr 16, 2005 #4
    They did the right thing...
     
  6. Apr 16, 2005 #5

    Pengwuino

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    Ok the place where this occoured is considered by many as a 'warzone'.

    Also, it was 2 soldiers on patrol and roughly 25 "kids".
    These "kids" are roughly as followed: about 6 are around 13 .. 'preteens' to be exact. About 6 or so more are about 14-18... teenagers... rest are 18+ and all are throwing stones at them.
     
  7. Apr 16, 2005 #6
    There are things I would've done differently, but I'm not going to court martial them or anything. Unless of course they're american, in which case they should've laid down and died because they're the scum of the earth.

    So, where was this anyways?
     
  8. Apr 16, 2005 #7

    Evo

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    I disagree. Throwing rocks at soldiers is pretty stupid. No one (with a brain) would do that and not expect the soldiers to retaliate.

    If there are soldiers in gear, that aren't on a military base, I would think that there is some "situation" and some "tension" and that makes what the kids did even more stupid.
     
  9. Apr 16, 2005 #8
    That sounds like an angry dangerous mob. It's lucky that the soldiers were riot-equipped. Now, what if the soldiers had only guns?
     
  10. Apr 16, 2005 #9
    These situations can be very tricky. If this happened in a 'warzone' then these soldiers are going to be more concerned about acts of aggression. You don't mention anyone getting killed in the scenario so I would say that these soldiers acted with the proper amount of force to regain control of the situation. If they allowed the kids(guys) to continue to throw rocks at them then these (children/teenagers) would escalate their attack. If they suffer no penalties for attacking soldiers then this group will attack other soldiers. You can see where this is going.
    Bottom line- Soldiers have a right to defend themselves. Thankfully these ones used some restraint.
     
  11. Apr 16, 2005 #10
    If two soldiers armed only with guns are attacked by a 20 person mob armed with rocks, what should they do?
     
  12. Apr 16, 2005 #11

    Pengwuino

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    http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2668853

    Ok theres the actual film; whos opinion changes based on where it is and who the people are? :) And my approximations for ages are probably kinda crappy....
     
  13. Apr 16, 2005 #12
    A friend of mine died In Viet Nam when a small girl walked up to him loaded with explosives and blew herself up. His buddy said she was no more then 5 or 6, a double tragedy, because she was to young to understand, and he was to caring to harm a child.
     
  14. Apr 16, 2005 #13

    Evo

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    That's horrifying if you really think about it. No 5-6 year old knows how to rig themselves up with explosives, some adult did it.
     
  15. Apr 16, 2005 #14

    Danger

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    I can't watch it; wrong version of Real Player. (The right one won't work with my OS.) I read the tag line, though, so I know where and what it was. My opinion hasn't changed.
    Hypatia has a really good point there, too. Kid-bombs were a real big deal for the Viet Cong, and older teens do the same deal for Islam. Also, any one of those 'rocks' could have turned out to be a grenade.
     
  16. Apr 16, 2005 #15

    Pengwuino

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    And what kind of person would actually put himself up to strapping a bomb ona lil kid?
     
  17. Apr 16, 2005 #16

    Danger

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    Fanatics and/or sociopaths. It's easy to justify it if you convince yourself that you're martyring them for the greater good.
     
  18. Apr 16, 2005 #17
    I wouldn't assume a child was innocent. They can be efficient killers as they don't have much of an understanding of death. They can learn quickly to kill with less remorse than most adults.

    I saw the film and my opinion hasn't changed. They greatly outnumbered those 2 soldiers and the cameraman. There was no doubt they were hostile. They were not small children and could harm those soldiers even with only rocks. I feel for the guy that got hit with the bag, but that could just as easily have been a bullet. He will live and see his family again. It makes me wonder if he thought about the consequences of his actions before he decided to join the mob. Would it have been worth it if he had died?

    I don't like these short film clips. They only show the violence. I want to see the few minutes before everything escalated. That tape could have been 20 minutes long but they only show about 2 or 3 minutes of violence. It can be misleading.
     
  19. Apr 16, 2005 #18

    Pengwuino

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    Yah you really wonder about the rest of the film (but obviously its difficult to put up a 20 minute clip on the internet... and cameras can never be rolling 24/7 lest they keep truckloads of video tapes all over the place to record everything). I wonder why they would even do this though. Who in the world throws stuff at people with guns???
     
  20. Apr 16, 2005 #19
    Angry, desperate people who don't have much to lose I imagine. Or as Danger said, fanatics and sociopaths.
     
  21. Apr 16, 2005 #20
    I guess they are heavily influenced by the Palestian adults. Kids don't know what's right from wrong so they develop their judgement based on what those they look up to do. These kids have probably been brought up feeling resentment towards the Israelies because of what they've heard from the time they were children as well. They also probably even feel that they are fighting for Islam and that death will only bring them martyrdom. Then when these kids grow up and become adults, having their own children, their kids will then follow in their footsteps creating this everlasting cycle...I don't know if their will ever be peace in the Middle East sometimes.
     
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