Directional Grooves on the Interior of Pipes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of using swirled grooves on the interior of pipes to enhance water flow and reduce energy losses due to turbulence. Participants explore theoretical and practical aspects of this concept, considering its implications for fluid dynamics and energy efficiency.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Jing proposes that swirled grooves could guide water flow, potentially reducing collisions with the pipe surface and preserving kinetic energy.
  • Some participants question the significance of turbulence and energy loss in traditional pipe flow, suggesting further investigation is needed.
  • One participant references a video discussing complex internal passages in fuel pipes, suggesting that similar principles could apply to Jing's idea.
  • There is mention of contacting experts in mechanical engineering and physics for guidance on fluid dynamics and energy losses.
  • Participants highlight the importance of the Reynolds Number in assessing flow characteristics and energy loss.
  • Concerns are raised about the applicability of certain equations related to friction in fluid contexts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying degrees of skepticism and curiosity regarding the proposed idea, with no consensus reached on its feasibility or effectiveness. Some participants challenge the assumptions made about energy loss and friction, indicating ongoing debate.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not yet quantified the energy losses associated with friction and turbulence in pipes, and there are unresolved questions about the significance of these factors in the context of the proposed design.

Jingie
Hey everyone! My name is Jing and I am participating in a one month summer program called SHAD where 800 high school students across Canada come together to try and solve some of the world's most multi-dimensional problems. One of the aspects of this program is the Entrepreneurial Project, where groups of SHAD participants innovate a solution to these kind of problems.

This year's theme is every consumption, and one of our group's ideas is to create a new type of pipes which has swirled grooves on the interior to better permit water flow and limit turbulence. A picture of the interior of a rifle is shown below to help illustrate what I am trying to convey:

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My question is whether or not this is a feasible idea and if it can be effective in reducing energy losses in the water across long distances.

Thanks for any help in advance!
 

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What is your thinking behind why the grooves will reduce the turbulence and energy loss?
 
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Likes   Reactions: russ_watters
Drakkith said:
What is your thinking behind why the grooves will reduce the turbulence and energy loss?
Hey, thanks for replying to my thread.

Our thinking was that by giving water a guided path to flow along, there is a lower chance for flowing water to divert from a path parallel to the pipe and collide against the smooth interior surface of the pipe. Therefore with less collisions, more kinetic energy is preserved.
 
Jingie said:
Hey, thanks for replying to my thread.

Our thinking was that by giving water a guided path to flow along, there is a lower chance for flowing water to divert from a path parallel to the pipe and collide against the smooth interior surface of the pipe. Therefore with less collisions, more kinetic energy is preserved.
Ok, not bad - but have you looked into whether or not that is a significant source of energy loss for flow in pipes?
 
:welcome:

Not grooves, but this video http://www.cnn.com/videos/tech/2014...p-plane.cnn/video/playlists/future-of-travel/ at 2:20 discusses fuel pipes with complex internal passages that guide the flow. I suggest that your team should try to contact G.E. Aircraft Engine Department for technical advice on your project. When I saw the video, I visualized a bundle of soda straws to replace a pipe with the diameter of the bundle. I'm sure it's not that simple, but "internal passages" sounds like such a bundle.

Good luck on your project.
 
russ_watters said:
Ok, not bad - but have you looked into whether or not that is a significant source of energy loss for flow in pipes?
Heya, thanks for replying.

It's definitely very important for our group to include the scale of the energy losses that can be achieved through this method. We haven't personally looked into the energy losses due to friction/turbulence in pipes yet, but we are in the process of contacting mechanical engineering and physics professors at our host university for guidance on involving fluids and energy losses.
 
anorlunda said:
:welcome:

Not grooves, but this video http://www.cnn.com/videos/tech/2014...p-plane.cnn/video/playlists/future-of-travel/ at 2:20 discusses fuel pipes with complex internal passages that guide the flow. I suggest that your team should try to contact G.E. Aircraft Engine Department for technical advice on your project. When I saw the video, I visualized a bundle of soda straws to replace a pipe with the diameter of the bundle. I'm sure it's not that simple, but "internal passages" sounds like such a bundle.

Good luck on your project.
Thanks!
 
Jingie said:
Heya, thanks for replying.

It's definitely very important for our group to include the scale of the energy losses that can be achieved through this method. We haven't personally looked into the energy losses due to friction/turbulence in pipes yet, but we are in the process of contacting mechanical engineering and physics professors at our host university for guidance on involving fluids and energy losses.
This one should be pretty easy to find with google...
 
The Frictional force is given by Ff = μ" role="presentation" style="display: inline; line-height: normal; font-size: 13px; word-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-: 0px; border: 0px; padding: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); (251, 251, 255); position: relative;">μμ Fn
Thus you should verify that the force of friction is fairly substantially reduced.
 
  • #10
Don't forget the Reynolds Number. That's perhaps the key measure in this research.
 
  • #11
Sandman7 said:
The Frictional force is given by Ff = μ" role="presentation" style="display: inline; line-height: normal; font-size: 13px; word-wrap: normal; white-space: nowrap; float: none; direction: ltr; max-width: none; max-height: none; min-width: 0px; min-: 0px; border: 0px; padding: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); (251, 251, 255); position: relative;">μμ Fn
Thus you should verify that the force of friction is fairly substantially reduced.

That equation is useless in fluids.