Do other countries look at us and laugh?

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  • #126
russ_watters
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I think it is the unqualified "I'm proud to be an American" which irks some of us. It's like saying "I'm proud to have 5 fingers on my left hand". It's totally meaningless, and reeks of shallowness.
Why do you assume peoples' pride in their country is unqualified?
 
  • #127
russ_watters
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No. The opposite of "pride" is "humility", not shame. (Notwithstanding what some radio and teevee personalities will try to tell you.)
According to dictionary.com, it only gives one antonym to "pride" and it is "humility", but it gives three antonyms to "shame": "pride, self-esteem, self-respect"....

...and if you go to the main thesaurus entry for "humility", you get this: "abasement, bashfulness, demureness, diffidence, docility, fawning, inferiority complex, lack of pride, lowliness, meekness, mortification, nonresistance, obedience, obsequiousness, passiveness, reserve, resignation, self-abasement, self-abnegation, servility, sheepishness, shyness, subjection, submissiveness, subservience, timidity, timorousness, unobtrusiveness, unpretentiousness"

So I'd say you are right that humility is an antonym of pride, but you are wrong that shame is not.
 
  • #128
OmCheeto
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Why do you assume peoples' pride in their country is unqualified?

Because few of them who say so know why. I've discussed it with many people, from many countries. It's a philosophical thing. Which is why tried to steer this thread back onto topic. GeorginaS had about the best answer I've ever seen to the off topic question. But I think one would have to understand Zen to understand her answer.

There are no borders. We made them up. There are no countries. We invented them. There is only us. To be prideful of something imaginary is to be, um, .......,

Sorry.

Can't find the word in the dictionary.
 
  • #129
russ_watters
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Because few of them who say so know why. I've discussed it with many people, from many countries.
Few people who are patriotic know why? I've discussed the concept with a lot of people too and I don't know that I've ever come across a person who was confused about why they were patriotic! But I have come across a lot of people who weren't patriotic who didn't understand the concept:
GeorginaS had about the best answer I've ever seen to the off topic question. But I think one would have to understand Zen to understand her answer.

There are no borders. We made them up. There are no countries. We invented them. There is only us. To be prideful of something imaginary is to be, um, .......
Just because we invented something, that doesn't make it imaginary. I'm quite certain my car exists and is a pretty solid concept! What you call "Zen" just sounds like nonsense to me. Honestly, it just sounds to me like you just don't want to accept/understand peoples' real opinions/positions about the concept.
 
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  • #130
sylas
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Please read this news account.

The report does not correspond to what you described previously; a case of President Obama simply speaking of "his" accomplishments. The statements covered combined actions from the nations at the summit. And -- as I would expect and as I described previously -- there was a focus on what still needs to happen. Future actions were the introduction and the conclusion of the president's press conference remarks; and every mention of what has been achieved was followed with a greater amount of text focused on what is still to be done.

I stand by my previous remark; and this news story indicates that the real problem is not that you aren't reading the same stories; but that you only seem to see a fraction of what is there.

My previous post stands unmodified; and president Obama's press conference fits what I said previously. Here it is again:

(1) Of course you can speak of what has been achieved while at the same time recognizing there's still a lot more to do. The kind of negativity that refuses to recognize any steps until you've finished the walk would be ridiculous.

(2) Unless you're getting radically different news from me, the major focus of what I've seen from the current administration at the international level continues to be on what is still to be done.

Cheers -- sylas
 

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