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Do you believe in Destiny?

  1. Aug 14, 2004 #1
    People say that you cannot change your destiny..It is simply inevitable...U just cannot change it..

    So, if you are preparing for a very simple exam for 10 years, but destiny has it that you will never clear it, so will you not??

    Does this mean, that destiny actually comes into play after the events?

    Picture this ::

    You are a very very healthy young man with no diseases at all, you do not smoke, do not drink at all, and follow a perfectly healthy routine, and then you suddenly have a total liver failure..Is this destiny?

    People will say "Poor young man, appeared to be healthy, but it was his fate.."

    Isnt Destiny something designed to explain unforseen failures & successes?

    What are your views?
  2. jcsd
  3. Aug 14, 2004 #2
    That's probably what Destiny is for many people. I'm not quite sure where I stand myself. Some people believe everything is pre-determined and is therefore; destiny. The perdition of the weather could be looked at as looking into the future, to see destiny.

    If destiny did not exist the future could not be foreseen, only guessed. Destiny may be set in stone and we only experience the illusion of free will. Which wouldn't really matter considering we think we're making the choices anyway.

    I don't really have a solid stance on the issue. It's interesting of course, but doesn't have much significance even if it exists or doesn't. (At the moment of course.)
  4. Aug 14, 2004 #3
    Actually, it is true destiney does exist. But the funny thing is whatever you do, that is your destiney, if you already knew your destiney and took a diffrent course just to avoid it. Then that would be your destiney. See, what i mean, whatever and i mean whatever you do is your destiney, it's predetermined because no matter what you do, eventually you end up doing something and that well is your destiney.
  5. Aug 14, 2004 #4
    Sort of like the question about free will, "Are our choices already made for us because of who we are?"
  6. Aug 14, 2004 #5


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    Staff: Mentor

    "destiny" and "fate" are words used whenever something unexpected happens. Nothing is predetermined. We don't have control over everything, but that doesn't mean that everything that will happen was predetermined.

    If a meteor falls from the sky and hits me on the head, obviously, I have no control over the meteor, but that doesn't mean anything was predestined to happen. It's called an ACCIDENT. If I die of a heart attack tomorrow, I have no control over it, but it's not predestined either, it means I have an undetected problem.
  7. Aug 15, 2004 #6

    Evo.. I've spent more time thinking about this question than any other.
    for most of my life I've held to the deterministic model of science.I'm more torn over it, than asking the god question.I see events unfold where a "lot" of "things" had to happen in order for said event to take place.one can follow the time line of these things and see the cause and effect to the eventual out come.

    there have been times where I was able to manipulate events to reach the desired outcome. but did i really? was the out come inevitable ? was I destined to interfere to reach the out come I wanted?

    one could go as far to say,that (at) the big bang app 13 billion years ago the time line of events that led to me "being here "today, typing a post to you in this room, was my destiny..the question is are they really just "words" like you say to explain unexpected events or a time line of events (cause and effect) that really do mean something. I'm not as certain as you.

    if the meteor did fall on you that you had no control over.could one not trace the events that put you in the location to be hit. a lot of things would have had to happen to put you in harms way..
  8. Aug 15, 2004 #7


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    I just see them as a series of "random" events, not predetermined.

    I'm not saying I'm right by any means, this is my opinion. It makes more sense to me that things are random. This means that I can knowingly interfere with a series of events to change the outcome, if I have the opportunity.

    I would rather live in a world of random events where I have meaning than in a dismal predetermined world where I am just a pawn.

    Life is too short to worry about these things, IMHO. If I get hit by a meteor, what difference does it make if it was random or predeterimed? :smile:
  9. Aug 15, 2004 #8


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    Staff: Mentor

    I just see them as a series of "random" events, not predetermined.

    I'm not saying I'm right by any means, this is my opinion. It makes more sense to me that things are random. This means that I can knowingly interfere with a series of events to change the outcome, if I have the opportunity.

    I would rather live in a world of random events where I have meaning than in a dismal predetermined world where I am just a pawn.

    Life is too short to worry about these things, IMHO. If I get hit by a meteor, what difference does it make if it was random or predeterimed? :smile:
  10. Aug 15, 2004 #9
    Do you belive in destiny?

  11. Aug 15, 2004 #10
    Do you belive in destiny?

  12. Aug 16, 2004 #11
    merak: I think that it is more important to understand this issue than anything else we do in this physical world.

    a wise man i once read said that there was no coincidence in the universe. his meaning was that things don't 'just' happen. rather, we make them happen.

    i come from the perspective that our present is a product of a remembered past and an expected future. all probable life events exist and are valid. we choose to actualize the physical life thread we wish to experience.

    IMHO, our spiritual self decides to be born into this world under a particular set of circumstance to satisfy one or many desires. i do not see them as glorious or altruistic, but something(s) that I want to experience or learn.

    now, as life unfolds, it is highly probable that these goals change and expand. the only fate or destiny that exist is the ability to achive the goals that we originally established. unfortunately, i think that the universe is a mutha. if we experience or learn what we set out for, our unconscious reaches out and sez, 'damn that was easy, now what?'. right on cue, mutha nature (via our unconscious agreement) sez, 'did ya ever think about trying it a different way?'. shazam! off we go into another adventure.

    i see us with total freewill (within the rules of physicality) to experience what we wish. on the broader level (spiritual?) i think the rules expand and so does our freewill. it is a constant growth of awareness.

    it is my contention that we create our reality in more ways than we can understand. being in touch with our inner selves helps manage (control) our energies and power. the power is probably contained in our belief system. we experience our reality based on what we believe, which directs our power.

    to me, we are co-creators of the mass reality. our mass experience is a reflection of the beliefs of all the people.

    olde drunk
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2004
  13. Aug 16, 2004 #12
    OK, assuming we are defining destiny as determinism (as by nature) then I disagree with pretty much all of you, but guess what, I can't prove it and neither can you!

    I hope Zantra doesn't mind but I had been looking for a way to express the condition of this war that cannot be won (except maybe for a deeper understanding of our physical universe, if that is possibe), so I borrowed this quote...
    My gut feeling tells me that free will isn't so free, but I try to keep an open mind.
  14. Aug 16, 2004 #13
    If we went back into history 1000 years and were watchers. That which is non relative only looking out with no interaction with the relative. We would start the motion at that point 1000 years ago, would anything change? If we did it an infinite number of times, would any act in all of history change? Would I have typed this any differently? There is a god, but do you think that god ever predestined anything(made a decision that the transistor would be made in 1960 or that the grand canyon would be made? I can sometimes see the future, and yet that future was never decided, how can this be? If you want answers in life I know one person who knows the answer to every question in universe. You also know this person.
  15. Aug 17, 2004 #14
    it really doesn't... :smile:

    The only way it would matter(to me) is if ,i could look back after the fact,when meteor killed me. and see some dumb thing that i unknowingly did to put my self in harms way. its likely I'd be pee o'ed at my self, knowing that.. 'I'... did my own self in. hopefully we cannot look back.
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2004
  16. Aug 20, 2004 #15
    destiny does exist. the proof is that we cannot change the past. i believe that the past is as the future is as the present. they are just moments. we simply are restricted to viewing them in one order.
  17. Aug 21, 2004 #16
    I question weather it matters or not. Who cares if you believe in destiny. What will it change, what will it effect? I ask not to offend but to shed light on the matter with a different perspective.

    It DOES NOT MATTER if you believe in destiny unless you some how can know your destiny. Since anybody claiming to know their own or somebody else's destiny is mostly likely either a crackpot or guessing, I don't think we are ever in danger of destiny actually mattering.

    The net effect: If you can't know your destiny, you do not have a destiny and you life is left to chance.
  18. Aug 21, 2004 #17
    I posted a thread in Philosophy of Science called "Block Time interpretation", looking at what science can tell us about this question.

    It seems to follow from relativity theory that Proteus is right: past present and future are just subjective labels that we attach to "already-existing" events.
    However quantum theory seems to tell us the opposite, that the future is undetermined.
    The only scientific way out I know is multiverse theory, in which all possible futures already exist, but it's unpredictable in which one we will live
  19. Aug 21, 2004 #18
    Isn't "destiny" just another word for "future?" In which case maybe what we need to ask is whether free will exists or not and, how that affects our future?
  20. Aug 21, 2004 #19
    as you state, the past, present and future are 'already existing' events. I submit that all probable past, present and future events are also valid.

    the exact moments of past, present and future that we experience depends on the moment we focus our consciousness upon. this, IMHO, explains the multi-verse and how we can accept QT's dimensions and parallel worlds.

    an oversimplification: we enter a theater multi-plex. one is showing the past, another, present and the third the future. we focus our attention on the period we wish to view and/or experience. within the showing we can also select the act and scene.

    this analogy can be expanded into a larger multi-plex that includes many lives with a separate complex for each life. helps view reincarnation.

    to me, time is needed for our physical brains to understand and fully experience the physical reality.

    again, the only destiny, is that we can choose our lives and experience. within that choice, we have certain expectations that can be sensed as destiny.

    olde drunk
  21. Aug 21, 2004 #20
    To each of you who are partaking in this discussion I want to say this:

    I believe in the Three Laws of Thermodynamics, and if any of you can remember the topic of Entropy then you know that our lives is that plus the Multiple Worlds Theory proposed by Dr. Hugh Everett, III in 1957.

    When one understands these two topics then the thoughts on Destiny become all too clear. Do I believe in destiny? Yes and No. Let me explain.

    You see, All life is a multifacet entropy system with mutiple permutations of actions given to us from the time that we are born to the time we die.

    Think of it as a 3-D Diamond, from the time that you are born, most if not all of the options are given to you to choose and act upon. However, as you get older those options gradually began to limit themselves until the point of death, whenever that is.

    Neverthess, All discarded options and decisions are carried out in parallel universes where your dopplegangers exercise and recieve the consequences of those actions, positve or negative. Therefore all is not lost.

    In fact, there are numerous theoretical physicists and psychologists who are swaying toward the possibility that when we dream somewhat "realisitic" dreams (not lucid dreams) that we are, in fact, entering these other universes.

    Which causes one to ask:

    When our counterparts sleep, do they enter our universe as a phantom-like viewer viewing our lives as we possibly view theirs?

    Such a question causes one to ask about the true nature of reality and its many forms.

    So is Destiny an issue or player in our everyday lives? Only when our options have been severely limited due to previous decisions. Other than that, it is only one of many options that we can choose from.

    We still have choices and the perception of Free Will continues forward.

    I hope that answers your question, HIGHLYTOXIC.

    Psychon919 out.
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