What percentage of Americans believe in ghosts?

[Ivan Seeking]

Thanks, now I won't be able to sleep tonight. :grumpy:


Seriously, shouldn't posts saying that ghosts exist get the same treatment as other crackpot theories do here? (Actually, I find ghosts a lot worse than many of the crazy "theories of everything" which appear here once in a while.) Ok, I get this is just entertainment for most of us, but appearantly not for everyone.

An observation, or believing a friend or familiy member, is not a theory. Perhaps you should be a little less sure that you have everything figured out. Millions of people claim to have had such experiences. I consider that and my own experience much more compelling than "it ain't true because I said so".

If someone made the claim that all "ghosts" are the souls of dead people, that would be a theory or hypothesis.

 

[Moridin]

Billions of people claim their religion is the truth, yet they cannot all be true. Hundreds of thousands of people used to believe in demons and witches. Doesn't make that true.

Let us apply Hume's maxim. What is more conceivable: that magical, supernatural, immaterial entities that can go through walls, make noises, violate the laws of physics exists or that subjective experience or hallucination (which is very common) makes some people think that those entities exist?

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I don't believe in ghosts and neither do any of my ancestors.

 

[EL]

Perhaps you should be a little less sure that you have everything figured out. Millions of people claim to have had such experiences. I consider that and my own experience much more compelling than "it ain't true because I said so".

When did I say I have "everything" figured out? All I said was that there exist no ghosts.
(Of course, as with everything, I can in principle not be 100% sure of it, but let's not go into semantics.)
If I get you right you are seriously suggesting I should consider that ghosts exist?

 

[EL]

An observation, or believing a friend or familiy member, is not a theory.

You are technically right. (I guess you got what I ment anyway.)

If someone made the claim that all "ghosts" are the souls of dead people, that would be a theory or hypothesis.

Ah, it is ok to claim that ghosts exist as long as one don't define what a ghost is! Actually that makes some sense.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Billions of people claim their religion is the truth, yet they cannot all be true. Hundreds of thousands of people used to believe in demons and witches. Doesn't make that true.

These are not personal experiences, they are beliefs based in faith.

Let us apply Hume's maxim. What is more conceivable: that magical, supernatural, immaterial entities that can go through walls, make noises, violate the laws of physics exists or that subjective experience or hallucination (which is very common) makes some people think that those entities exist?

It sounds to me like Hume defines this phenomenon to be magical and supernatural because he can't explain it. That is a faith based theory.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

When did I say I have "everything" figured out? All I said was that there exist no ghosts.
(Of course, as with everything, I can in principle not be 100% sure of it, but let's not go into semantics.)

No, lets.

If I get you right you are seriously suggesting I should consider that ghosts exist?

I suggest that you consider that people may experience things that we can't seem to explain.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Ah, it is ok to claim that ghosts exist as long as one don't define what a ghost is! Actually that makes some sense.

Assuming that a person really observed or experienced an unusual phenomenon, it is still just a phenomenon. What we call it or how we interpret it may or may not mean a thing.

 

[EL]

I suggest that you consider that people may experience things that we can't seem to explain.

Yes, when did I not?
Again, I'm just saying ghosts do not exist.

 

[EL]

Assuming that a person really observed or experience an unusual phenomenon, it is still just a phenomenon. What we call it or how we interpret it may or may not mean a thing.

Now this is getting into semantics.
I think most people have a fairly common view of what a ghost is suppost to be. (Otherwise the headline of this thread would be quite meaningless.)

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Yes, when did I not?
Again, I'm just saying ghosts do not exist.

What are ghosts, and how do you know that they don't exist?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Now this is getting into semantics.
I think most people have a fairly common view of what a ghost is suppost to be. (Otherwise the headline of this thread would be quite meaningless.)

People experience all sorts of things that get lumped together due to personal beliefs, true believers, and crackpot debunkers.

Most people have a common view of what Einstein said about this or that, and most get it wrong.

 

[EL]

What are ghosts,

This would work:

A ghost is defined as the apparition of a deceased person, frequently similar in appearance to that person, and usually encountered in places she or he frequented, or in association with the person's former belongings. The word "ghost" may also refer to the spirit or soul of a deceased person, or to any spirit or demon.[1][2] Ghosts are often associated with hauntings, which is, according to the Parapsychological Association, "the more or less regular occurrence of paranormal phenomena associated with a particular locality (especially a building) and usually attributed to the activities of a discarnate entity; the phenomena may include apparitions, poltergeist disturbances, cold drafts, sounds of footsteps and voices, and various odours."

and how do you know that they don't exist?

Seriously?
You could ask that question about anything.
How do you know Santa doesn't exist? (There are millions of people claiming so, and the main part of them also claim they have actually seen him.)

What one should ask is: what are the scientific evidence for the existence of ghosts?
Answer: None.

 

[EL]

People experience all sorts of things that get lumped together due to personal beliefs, true believers, and crackpot debunkers.

Most people have a common view of what Einstein said about this or that, and most get it wrong.

That's different. We do not define what Einstein said.

 

[Zenparticle]

As much as I would hope to understand everything- I know that there are concepts, ideas, math, physics, religion, love, philosophy you name it, and still I do not understand nor will I ever(in this life at least) know the truth behind it all. I seem to understand as time goes by that I know very little and I question anyone who thinks they know it all. I know I may be wrong in what my experiences could have been- It could be that I was just half awake when I saw what I saw- or I could have been slipped some LSD and that's why the door knob to my parents room appeared to be moving on it's own. I have no way of proving what I experienced was a ghost-but they were all vivid and quite frankly weird experiences.

 

[LightbulbSun]

I believe in ghosts, but wish I didn't. I don't believe in dragons, but wish I did. Ofcourse, I also think the world is far too sensible of a place and doesn't fully realize the value of a little bit of insensibility. I don't know of any reason to believe that all of reality can be measured by our senses. I believe that sort of sentiment stifles individual creativity and imagination. (I blame my grade school teacher for punishing me for coloring outside the lines.)

Blah, blah, blah. Yeah here we go with the stereotype again "RATIONALITY IS FOR THE HEARTLESS, JUST GET THAT FEELING, EAT A BALONEY SANDWHICH THE RIGHT WAY AND JUST BELIEVE GUYS." Screw that. As I've told people before, if a God does exist I'd rebel. If ghosts exist I'd tell them to **** off and get a life.

To think about whether or not we can measure reality outside of our senses is pointless. 1) Who cares really? 2) If it's outside of our senses then how could it possibly be useful to us in acquiring new knowledge?

 

[Werg22]

I don't believe in ghosts but I dread encountering one.

 

[B. Elliott]

Since I have not yet seen any hard evidence supporting the existence of ghosts, as cool as it would be for them to exist, I have to say no. My beliefs can change though. Somewhat like when I was a child, I fully believed in ghosts... they were the bumps in the night. As I grew older I was able to easily explain the 'bumps' as either a mouse, rat, bird, the house settling, wind, ect. I do find the reports and documented events interesting though and I view them fairly open-mindedly. I've been to a few houses and places that were supposedly haunted (the Chattanooga battlefield and the Bell Witch area in Middle TN being two), but have yet to see anything out of the ordinary, let alone any spirits or apparitions.

One place that I would love to visit, even though my better judgement tells me it's just a ploy to increase tourism, is the Mackenzie poltergeist in Scotland...

Since 1999 there have been 350 documented attacks. 170 people have collapsed. Tourists have reported hot spots, cold spots, somewhere in the middle spots. They have been bloodied and bruised, pushed and pulled, by an unseen and altogether unwanted visitor to the Black Mausoleum.

http://heritage.scotsman.com/myths.cfm?id=39982005

 

[Chi Meson]

I am with EL on this one.

For any, every and all ghost stories, tales, experiences, feelings, etc, etc, I have no doubts in my mind that there is an explanation that does not involve a bodiless spirit.

There are phenomena that are unexplained, but mostly there are a lot of people ranging from wishful thinkers to those with outright dementia who really want ghosts to exist. Then there are rats, possums, mice and owls (I'm convinced that it was owls that gave the "boo" to ghost stories). When you want to see something so very badly, and then you go into a dark room, I think you will eventually see and hear exactly what you want to see and hear.

 

[morphism]

For any, every and all ghost stories, tales, experiences, feelings, etc, etc, I have no doubts in my mind that there is an explanation that does not involve a bodiless spirit.

This is pretty much my sentiment too.

 

[Artman]

For any, every and all ghost stories, tales, experiences, feelings, etc, etc, I have no doubts in my mind that there is an explanation that does not involve a bodiless spirit.

I used to think that.

There are phenomena that are unexplained, but mostly there are a lot of people ranging from wishful thinkers to those with outright dementia who really want ghosts to exist. Then there are rats, possums, mice and owls (I'm convinced that it was owls that gave the "boo" to ghost stories). When you want to see something so very badly, and then you go into a dark room, I think you will eventually see and hear exactly what you want to see and hear.

How do two different people see it, and describe it, without prompting? I thought I imagined my experience, until it was validated (for me) by someone I trust.

 

[waht]

It is evolutionary to be in fear when alone in the dark, for obvious reasons. Therefore the feeling of fear is dramatically reduced when one seeks company of another person or a group. That ensures your safety from a potential danger, such as an ambush by a saber tooth tiger. That's why people in groups never report seeing anything.

I don't know what the exact percentage is, but there is a lot of non-verbal communication taking place among humans which is still not understood very well. Fear can be contagious. If one person is in fear, it can spread to another person (who might not be as confident as well, when facing a potential danger, usually imaginary)

I have a theory among many, that seeing a ghost is the same mechanism that if you were stuck in a dark cave, fear would compel you to find a way out of the cave, as caves are home to dangerous creatures, such as bats or bears. Furthermore, a house or a small dark space would simulate the same conditions as a cave, and force you to get out by inducing feeling of "fear". But since, you are living in such a place for extended periods of time against mother nature's programming, your mind will induce these ghosts so that you can still seek an exit.

my 2 cents.

 

[Evo]

Artman It simply cannot be explained, until someone experiences it first hand they can't imagine what it is. I didn't believe there was something unexplainable until it happened to me and several others where there to witness it at the same time.

Some people will never experience it, so to them it doesn't exist, what ever "it" might be. I can't blame those that haven't experienced it to disbelieve it. We will just consider ourselves "special".

 

[Huckleberry]

Blah, blah, blah. Yeah here we go with the stereotype again "RATIONALITY IS FOR THE HEARTLESS, JUST GET THAT FEELING, EAT A BALONEY SANDWHICH THE RIGHT WAY AND JUST BELIEVE GUYS." Screw that. As I've told people before, if a God does exist I'd rebel. If ghosts exist I'd tell them to **** off and get a life.

To think about whether or not we can measure reality outside of our senses is pointless. 1) Who cares really? 2) If it's outside of our senses then how could it possibly be useful to us in acquiring new knowledge?

That's not what I was saying at all. I don't think rationality is heartless, and I hate baloney sandwiches any way they can be eaten. Whether someone believes in God or ghosts or dragons is of little concern to me either way. I also wasn't thinking about whether or not we can measure reality outside of our senses. I was just saying that it can exist there.

Sorry about the confusion.

 

[LightbulbSun]

I used to think that.

How do two different people see it, and describe it, without prompting? I thought I imagined my experience, until it was validated (for me) by someone I trust.

How do two different people like the same foods? You're duping yourself by jumping on the bandwagon of wishful thinkers.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I grew up leaning toward belief in something paranormal causing these strange experiences people have. Later, I started finding out about the variety of things that can cause hallucinations, even in otherwise functional people. Add to that the phenomenon of hypnosis (especially self-suggestion) and I don't see any reason to hold on to the possibility there might be anything to "ghosts" outside neurological and psychological phenomena.

 

[Chi Meson]

How do two different people see it, and describe it, without prompting? I thought I imagined my experience, until it was validated (for me) by someone I trust.

I can't explain it, because I have no idea what the details are.

I used to think there were ghosts too.

Some people will never experience it, so to them it doesn't exist, what ever "it" might be. I can't blame those that haven't experienced it to disbelieve it. We will just consider ourselves "special".

Yeah. "Special."

 

[zoobyshoe]

How do two different people see it, and describe it, without prompting? I thought I imagined my experience, until it was validated (for me) by someone I trust.

There is a third possibility, which is that you and your wife were "primed" for something like this, at a previous time, without either of you being aware it was happening. Hypnagogue recently brought up the concept of "alert hypnosis" in another forum: a situation where suggestions are planted in people's minds while they are in perfectly normal consciouness. British hypnotist Derren Brown does this to people on a regular basis while being filmed doing it and the results are remarkable:

http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv/microsites/M/mindcontrol/video/

His skill lies in part in a thorough knowledge of how to suggest, rather than directly state, and in recognizing when a person is sufficiently preoccupied that the suggestion will take hold without their conscious knowledge.

I don't think people like Derren Brown go around randomly planting such suggestions in unsuspecting people. I think most such suggestions get planted inadvertently. If you watch the Derren Brown clips and read his explanations of how he does it you'll be able to piece together how this could happen, and see that people like Derren Brown learned it was possible to do such things by observing them happen inadvertently in the first place.

 

[Artman]

There is a third possibility, which is that you and your wife were "primed" for something like this, at a previous time, without either of you being aware it was happening. Hypnagogue recently brought up the concept of "alert hypnosis" in another forum: a situation where suggestions are planted in people's minds while they are in perfectly normal consciouness. British hypnotist Derren Brown does this to people on a regular basis while being filmed doing it and the results are remarkable:

http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv/microsites/M/mindcontrol/video/

His skill lies in part in a thorough knowledge of how to suggest, rather than directly state, and in recognizing when a person is sufficiently preoccupied that the suggestion will take hold without their conscious knowledge.

I don't think people like Derren Brown go around randomly planting such suggestions in unsuspecting people. I think most such suggestions get planted inadvertently. If you watch the Derren Brown clips and read his explanations of how he does it you'll be able to piece together how this could happen, and see that people like Derren Brown learned it was possible to do such things by observing them happen inadvertently in the first place.

I'm open minded to a good explanation, but it doesn't explain the dog whining.

 

[out of whack]

it doesn't explain the dog whining.

Dogs typically react to their master's mood.

 

[EL]

Artman It simply cannot be explained, until someone experiences it first hand they can't imagine what it is. I didn't believe there was something unexplainable until it happened to me and several others where there to witness it at the same time.

Evo, I'm a bit interested in what exactly you have experienced. Do you mind telling us?

 

[Evo]

Evo, I'm a bit interested in what exactly you have experienced. Do you mind telling us?

It was over a 2 year period while my youger daughter was 12-14. It got so bad that my older daughter moved to her dad's and was afraid to come back inside the house. She would call me and ask what else had happened. Everything stopped abruptly after she turned 14, nothing unusual since. Just things moving, noises, seeing things that weren't there. The best one was a cat that was sound asleep was hurtled sideways off my bed several feet through the air (sideways, still curled up) crashing into and knocking over a box fan. Like they say, there is an explanation for everything.

 

[Andre]

During my conscription in military surface we had this field exercise. This was in the time that the men were of steel and the airplanes of wood. The commander had decided that we started the exercise at midnight with a infiltration attempt on foot for my platoon, sneaking behind enemy lines under cover of the darkness. 20 miles walking with tonnes of hardware. The attempt was unsuccesful since the "enemy"-commander had the same idea. But resourceful as our commander was, he decided to make another attempt the second night, but now with the entire company. That it was our platoon second night in a row was only a technicality. After all, you had to give everything you had for the country.

So at the end of that second night with deprivation of sleep for some 48 hours, suddenly enemy trucks were driving around in circles around our group. But it remained dead silent. Ghost trucks. Just halucinations and plenty of them. Very vividly. I would have done weird things if I had not realized that I was just halucinating. Human brains can be very open for that after which you would swear that it was real.

 

[EL]

Ok, let's focus on this one:

The best one was a cat that was sound asleep was hurtled sideways off my bed several feet through the air (sideways, still curled up) crashing into and knocking over a box fan.

How much of this did you honestly see? Where you looking at the cat when it started to "hurtle"? How did the cat react? What did you do just before this happened? Were you tired?

 

[out of whack]

Like they say, there is an explanation for everything.

Absotively. One has to be exceptionally naive to blame ghosts for unexplained events of that kind. It has nothing to do with ghosts. It's the Martians.

Human brains can be very open for that after which you would swear that it was real.

I have also observed my mind doing its own thing when sleep deprived or even a few times without obvious cause: hallucinations of course, also completely forgetting certain events, and conversely I would not be surprised to learn that some of my memories are false. The mind naturally interpolates unknown events between known ones, filling in the blanks with the most credible path. But this can easily be wrong and result in perceived miracles. And then, there's always the Martians...