Do you really think there is a mythical force called Chi?

[Line]

Do you really think there is a mythical force called Chi? The Chinese said it was electricity flowing through our bodies down channels called meridians.

While electricity does flow through our bodies it's not down meridians but nerves. Do you think that the chinese were really taping into our nervous system not knowing it's just neurons receiving elevtrical transmissions from the brain?

 

[zoobyshoe]

I don't know too much about it, but I don't think they believe it is electricity, rather, they characterize it as "life force". In addition, I don't think the alleged paths for it correspond enough to nerves to say they mistook nerve impulses for something else. I saw a chart of the flow of "chi" somewhere, and it didn't seem to overlap with nerve paths.

 

[somasimple]

Hi,

While electricity does flow through our bodies

There is no electricity along nerves!

Chi is simply the blood/breathing beat exciting our terminal C fibres. you may experience it very easily if you focuse your awareness on the forearms while breathing deeply and slowly.

 

[Line]

Huh, hello our nervous system is totally based around nervous impulses.

 

[SGT]

Meridians are not connected to any structure in the human body. Meridians and chi have as much credibility as the theory of humors accepted by ancient western medicine.
Real medicine, occidental or orienal has progressed and those theories are not accepted anymore by serious doctors, but quackery still exists and finds many satisfied customers.

 

[PIT2]

Real medicine, occidental or orienal has progressed and those theories are not accepted anymore by serious doctors, but quackery still exists and finds many satisfied customers.

The 'quackery' appears to work:

Conclusion: Qigong practice may regulate immunity, metabolic rate, and cell death, possibly at the transcriptional level. Our pilot study provides the first evidence that Qigong practice may exert transcriptional regulation at a genomic level. New approaches are needed to study how genes are regulated by elements associated with human uniqueness, such as consciousness, cognition, and spirituality.

http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/acm.2005.11.29?journalCode=acm

 

[zoobyshoe]

The 'quackery' appears to work:

I've read things saying that accupuncture was shown to release endorphins, which make people feel better. I tried it once, and it seemed to make my extremities feel warmer and more " alive" for a week or so. There is no way to tell if that is a placebo effect, though. I was fully expecting it to do something because of the endorphin thing I'd read.
I would reccomend accupuncture to anyone, just because it was such an unusual, interesting, off-the-beaten-path experience: fun in the same way trying some strange foreign food is fun.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Huh, hello our nervous system is totally based around nervous impulses.

Somasimple is correct, though. The impulses that travel along nerves aren't "electricity", in the conventional sense at all. It's a very different process than EMF and voltage developing in a conventional conductor.

 

[SGT]

The 'quackery' appears to work:

First of all, 12 subjects constitute a universe too small o have statistical significance. Further, the article you linked to does not give numbers. How better did the test group perform than the control group?
Finally, how the tests can confirm the conclusion that Qigong practice may exert transcriptional regulation at a genomic level?
I hear a band of ducks quacking.

 

[PIT2]

I also think it has to do with the placebo effect. Maybe 'chi' is an effective way of controlling the effect, or focussing it on specific locations in the body.

 

[SGT]

I also think it has to do with the placebo effect. Maybe 'chi' is an effective way of controlling the effect, or focussing it on specific locations in the body.

I don't think placebo effect could alter DNA. To my knowledge, DNA can be altered by ionizing radiation, by chemical reactions or by virii. The result is almost allways a tumor.
If those guys can alter DNA in a benign way using the mind, the researchers are entitled to a Nobel prize in medicine, but prior to that they can apply for the million dollar prize of the James Randi Foundation. This prize could finance a good part of their research.

 

[PIT2]

I bet http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/1_20it2.jpg has more cash than Randi, maybe he will be willing to fund them

How does the placebo effect work? At what level does consciousness alter the biochemistry?

 

[SGT]

I bet http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/1_20it2.jpg has more cash than Randi, maybe he will be willing to fund them

I am sure that Chopra has more cash than Randi, the difference is that Randi has a notarized offer of the million dollar, while Chopra offers nothing.

How does the placebo effect work? At what level does consciousness alter the biochemistry?

For a good analysis read this entry in The Skeptics Dictionary.

 

[PIT2]

I am sure that Chopra has more cash than Randi, the difference is that Randi has a notarized offer of the million dollar, while Chopra offers nothing.

Chopra has a history of funding research, such as the "Synchrodestiny study".
http://www.bastyr.edu/development/newsletter/fall04.asp?jump=5

Bill Gates would also do of course.

For a good analysis read this entry in The Skeptics Dictionary.

It seems they have no clue what causes it.

 

[FredGarvin]

I think a lot has to do with our literal interpretation of old ideas from a different language and culture. In Aikido, we study the idea of ki, but not in such a literal sense as being asked here. From what I have read regarding Qigong and Yoga and others, IMO the same holds true.

I think it would be very difficult to do a proper study on the effects of something like Qigong, especially to attribute the benefits derived to chi.

 

[Azael]

I've read things saying that accupuncture was shown to release endorphins, which make people feel better. I tried it once, and it seemed to make my extremities feel warmer and more " alive" for a week or so. There is no way to tell if that is a placebo effect, though. I was fully expecting it to do something because of the endorphin thing I'd read.
I would reccomend accupuncture to anyone, just because it was such an unusual, interesting, off-the-beaten-path experience: fun in the same way trying some strange foreign food is fun.

acupuncture is a well respected and very often prescribed treatment in sweden. It does have documented pain relife effects.