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Do you think this guy in Iran would be name a genius if he was in USA or first world?

  1. May 23, 2009 #1
    hello
    in iran if you want to go to university you should take a big exam which is named Konkoor,and if you want to study in engineering fields at university you should compete with about 400000 students every year,the better your rank is in that exam the more chance you have to go to better universities and better fields,i know a guy (a friend of mine) which lives in Iran his rank among 400000 students that took the exam(konkoor) was 3547and he studied mechanical engineering,then when he wanted to study his Msc in mechanical engineering he took another Konkoor and his rank was 150 among 16000 students that participated in the exam,as i know in iran this guy would be named an "upper than average" student due to the educational model they have, what do you think if this guy was in USA or a first world country what was he named?a genius?an "upper than average" student"?or what do you think about how much of a good student he is if he was in first world countries?

    (as for your knowledge the only way to go to university in iran is participating in konkoor and everybody that wants to go to university takes that,for example 16000 students that participated in his second konkoor are not just a part of students that want to get a Msc,they are all of the students that want to get a Msc)
     
  2. jcsd
  3. May 23, 2009 #2
    Re: Do you think this guy in Iran would be name a genius if he was in USA or first wo

    Measuring of intelligence is somewhat subjective. The term "genius" is usually applied to persons who score over 140 (approximately) on a standard IQ test. We have a similar test to the konkoor in the US called SAT (Scholastic Aptitude Test). It does not test the same things that an IQ test does though generally people who score in the higher percentiles probably have high IQs aswell.
     
  4. May 24, 2009 #3
    Re: Do you think this guy in Iran would be name a genius if he was in USA or first wo

    thanks for reply,is SAT exam as hard as Konkoor? in konkoor you should compete with 400000 people(first konkoor for Bs),and because iran is a third world country and has limited educational facilities if you are not among the first 6000 students you will not have the chance to get good education,if this guy was in USA with a 3547 rank between 400000 people,how much chanca does this guy had to study mechanical engineering in universities like MIT,stanford,harvard or yale?
     
  5. May 24, 2009 #4
    Re: Do you think this guy in Iran would be name a genius if he was in USA or first wo

    I tried to look up something that describes the Konkoor but so far have not found anything in english and there don't seem to be any articles anywhere that compare the two tests.

    The SAT is not competative. Scores are not based on ranking, only preformance on the test. So it would be hard to compare a ranking in the konkoor with a score in the SAT.
    Here...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAT#Raw_scores.2C_scaled_scores.2C_and_percentiles
    ..there is a table of approximate percentiles.
    It shows approximately what percentage of people who take the test achieve certain score ranges.
    If we consider the scoring ranges equal for convenience then your friend having placed higher than 99% of the of the other test takers would equate to an SAT score not terribly short of perfect (2290 of 2400 possible, approximately). Realistically that could be rather off but its the best I can do at a comparison.
    MIT admissions accepts students in the 75th percentile at the high end so if the two tests are at all comparable then your friend would qualify on that criterion. There are other criteria used to determine eligibility for entrance though such as previous grade records. There may also be limited admittance so he would have to have qualifications competitive with the other candidates.
    They actually have a Persian Students Association at MIT and an Iranian Studies Group.

    I haven't looked up anything for the other schools you mentioned but while I was looking for information on the konkoor I found a comment that Iranian students who go to graduate school abroad in the US tend to find enrollment in a university rather easily.
     
  6. May 24, 2009 #5
    Re: Do you think this guy in Iran would be name a genius if he was in USA or first wo

    In Lebanon there's also , But not konkoor ?
     
  7. May 24, 2009 #6
    Re: Do you think this guy in Iran would be name a genius if he was in USA or first wo

    thanks for reply,konkoor is different from SAT,as i know in SAT when you get your score you can go and apply for any university you want,even if you have a 1500 score you can go and apply for MIT and they decide to accept you or not,and SAT exam can be took 2 or three times in a year,but about Konkoor(i describe it for Bs qualification for Msc all the rules are the same):
    Bs konkoor students are examined for what they have studied during their high school,konkoor questions are separated in 7 different subjects(what i describe here is just for math and engineering fields subjects for those who want to study medicine or want to be a doctor is different in the second part of konkoor),in order they are:
    first part:
    1-literature:25 questions
    2-Theology and Philosophy of Islam:25 questions
    3-Arabic language:25 questions
    4-English language:25 questions

    at first part of konkoor they give you this 100 questions and you have 75 minutes to answer them.

    second part:
    5-math(algebra,differential equations,...): 55 questions
    6-physics:45 questions
    7-chemistry:35 questions

    at second part of konkoor they give you this 135 questions and you have 175 minutes to answer them.

    the scoring system in konkoor is not like SAT,in konkoor your performance in every subject is given by percentage out of 100,for example if in math you answer 80 percentage of questions correctly with no wrong answers your score in math would be"80" and so on,
    normally average percentage of those whose rank is 1 to 100 among 400000 people that participated is between 80 percent and 90 percent,it means they answered 80 to 90 percentage of all the questions right.
    after students have their percentages and their ranks about 60000 students among those 400000 students will get the right to go to university the rest(about 340000 students must try their chance in the next year konkoor),university entrance system is like this:

    -the 1st student rank chooses the fileds and universities that he/she wants to go(since he /she is the first one for sure he/she can go every where he/she wants)
    -after 1st rank student is done,second rank student will choose,after that third one after that ....,and in order from 1st rank to about 60000th rank students choose their fields and universities.

    so it was all i knew about konkoor,if you had any other question about it ask and i will get the answer from my friend.
     
  8. May 24, 2009 #7
    Re: Do you think this guy in Iran would be name a genius if he was in USA or first wo

    Perhaps ,there are indeed many variables !
     
  9. May 24, 2009 #8
    Re: Do you think this guy in Iran would be name a genius if he was in USA or first wo

    "Konkoor" I find that name funny; adapted from French "concours" probably, which means contest.
     
  10. May 24, 2009 #9
    i think you are right,because french literature and language have had a real effect in iran about 50 years ago,as i know the: foreign language that was taught in iran highschools in that time was french not english!
     
  11. May 24, 2009 #10
    Re: Do you think this guy in Iran would be name a genius if he was in USA or first wo

    when you said "perhaps" it means there is a probability that this guy is not genius,so what do you think are other variables that maybe has a roll in his success.variables like try,chance,...?
     
  12. May 24, 2009 #11
    Re: Do you think this guy in Iran would be name a genius if he was in USA or first wo

    These kind of tests are normal in most Asian countries (India, China/HK, Japan, ....). I don't know about Iran one but I believe most of those countries have quite challenging tests.

    nonsense ...

    Just because US doesn't have that tests that doesn't mean all US students are not that genius/capable of handling those intense competitive exams.
     
  13. May 24, 2009 #12

    cristo

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    Re: Do you think this guy in Iran would be name a genius if he was in USA or first wo

    No. Doing well in an entrance exam is not, to me at least, a sign of genius. (Note that he only came in the top 1% as well.. what about the 3500 who scored better than him that year?)
     
  14. May 24, 2009 #13
    Re: Do you think this guy in Iran would be name a genius if he was in USA or first wo

    I don't think entrance exams are a measure of intellectual abilities or originality. Both of which I think are qualities 'genius'' have. They do however measure your memory capability... but I don't think that is an important quality to be able to be considered a genius.

    Although I would assume most students who score well on these tests would qualify as a genius...
     
  15. May 25, 2009 #14
    Re: Do you think this guy in Iran would be name a genius if he was in USA or first wo


    i think you are right except one part,Konkoor is a memory measuring exam in the first part(literature,arabic,english,theology),but in the second part just about 40 percent of the test is about memory,every year nearly 60 percent of all the questions are new and challenging.

    although i believe in the whole concept you mentioned,entrance exams has often a repetitive algorithm and the results can get better if someone take the test for more than one year.
     
  16. May 25, 2009 #15
    Re: Do you think this guy in Iran would be name a genius if he was in USA or first wo

    Well even for the math/physics you can always remember the tips/tricks to get fast answers instead of working out each answer quickly. I wasn't saying memory work of previous tests just memory work of remembering what your doing and when to do it. A student who studies math can definitely consistently do this. This in my opinion is not a genius. Just someone who is very book smart.
     
  17. May 25, 2009 #16
    Re: Do you think this guy in Iran would be name a genius if he was in USA or first wo

    Has your friend done any significant research? If the answer is no, then hes not that special.
     
  18. May 25, 2009 #17
    Re: Do you think this guy in Iran would be name a genius if he was in USA or first wo

    is a trier student as valuable as a genius in first world countries?
    i mean you consider two students,first one is an ordinary person with an IQ of about 100 to 105,the second student is a genius with an IQ of 140 or more,and they take SAT exam,the first student is a heavily trier ,he reads his lessons 10 to 12 hours in a day and learns SAT exams of the 10 past years,and he tries a lot to learn and learn and learn to get good results at his up coming SAT exam,the second one due to being genius doesn't need to read that much maybe he reads necessary materials 2 or at maximum 3 hours in a day.then they take SAT and their score is the same for example they both get 2300,
    and consider their GPA is the same but one has got these results for his huge trying the other one has got it for being genius,
    now you tell me if you had the authority to accept one of them for example for studying in MIT mechanical engineering school which one would you choose the trier or the genius?or you think they have equal right for being in MIT?and please mention why you have this opinion?(for sure the assumption is they both intend to study in MIT mechanical engineering school)
     
  19. May 25, 2009 #18
    Re: Do you think this guy in Iran would be name a genius if he was in USA or first wo

    If I were the university I wouldn't be able to tell which was the genius or which was the student.

    If the genius DID however want to get into MIT in a competitive program (I'm from Canada all university programs are competitive based idk about in America.) I would assume
    a) he would try harder (it doesn't take a genius to understand that if you want to get into these programs you should try..)
    or
    b) he would probably have pre-acceptance to universities due to OUTSTANDING work in school

    But even so, if I were in a position to decide which went to MIT I would choose the genius. This person is GIFTED and is just not living up to their potential, possibly because they aren't interested. Put one of these people into a field that they enjoy and BOOM BAM.
    Just because this other guy tried so hard doesn't mean anything to me because I know his IQ is 100-105 and the others is 140+. If the genius showed interest in this area then I would pressume he would be able to offer the most in return through research etc.
     
  20. May 25, 2009 #19
    Re: Do you think this guy in Iran would be name a genius if he was in USA or first wo

    gholamghar, I already answered your question. Go back and read my post.
     
  21. May 25, 2009 #20
    Re: Do you think this guy in Iran would be name a genius if he was in USA or first wo

    My stepfather is an engineer and I am quite certain that he would prefer the hardworker to the genius. That would probably be a general attitude among engineers since they are more practical minded. The schools on the other hand are a different story. It all depends on who is running admissions.
    As noted by Cy and Sorry there are other considerations. Colleges like good grade histories, participation in student activities, participation in scholastic competitions, ect. If the hard worker had to spend all of his time studying just to get good grades in high school (not sure of the equivalent in Iran) to the exclusion of any other student activities they may see that as a bad sign since college is far more demanding.
     
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