Does massless charge exist?

1. Dec 14, 2011

phydev

Does massless charge exist!??

We do have numerous particles with zero electric charge and non-zero mass, but do we have particles with zero mass and non-zero electric charge?

2. Dec 14, 2011

jobsism

Re: Does massless charge exist!??

I don't think something like that exists. To have a charge would mean loss or gain of electrons, and electrons do have non-zero mass. So, non-zero charge would simply imply non-zero mass, wouldn't it?

3. Dec 14, 2011

Pengwuino

Re: Does massless charge exist!??

No. Particles like the W bosons have electric charge and are not electrons

@OP: The only massless particle is the photon (that we know of). Something with zero mass and an electric charge would be easily detectable and easily created. If it did exist, I believe it would mean QED would be all sorts of screwed up, and we know QED is amazingly accurate.

4. Dec 14, 2011

phydev

Re: Does massless charge exist!??

It does not make any sense... so I simply cannot agree!
I need some reference not views of an individual what he/she thinks.

Electron is a lepton, has a charge of its own.
Quarks do have charges( both -ve and +ve) how can u relate them with gain or loss of electrons??

Charge is an attribute or intrinsic properties, u cannot relate it specially with electrons only!

5. Dec 14, 2011

phydev

Re: Does massless charge exist!??

Please elaborate on how it could be easily detected and created if it did exist. And how would it screw up with QED?

Thanks!

6. Dec 14, 2011

phyzguy

Re: Does massless charge exist!??

The E-M field carries mass-energy, so since a particle with an electric charge acts as a source of the E-M field, it must have mass.

7. Dec 14, 2011

phydev

Re: Does massless charge exist!??

Photon, quanta of EM field does not have mass!!

8. Dec 14, 2011

meldraft

Re: Does massless charge exist!??

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but since Einstein's formula suggests that E=mc^2, if a particle other than the photon where to have 0 mass, 0 energy would be required to create it. That is why it would be extremely easy to make such a particle.

9. Dec 14, 2011

ZapperZ

Staff Emeritus
Re: Does massless charge exist!??

Einstein's formula only state that a mass m has an equivalent energy content, so that E is the energy that one can get out of such a mass. It say nothing about how "easy" it is to create such a particle.

Zz.

10. Dec 14, 2011

meldraft

Re: Does massless charge exist!??

Hmmm good to know. Thank you!

11. Dec 14, 2011

phydev

Re: Does massless charge exist!??

@Zz: precisely...!

12. Dec 14, 2011

MechaType

Re: Does massless charge exist!??

That's kind of scary to think of. I am instantaly alarmed. I honestly think something like this cannot exisit. Anything with no mass cannot exsist.

13. Dec 14, 2011

Re: Does massless charge exist!??

Light exists, does it not? It has no mass!

14. Dec 14, 2011

ZapperZ

Staff Emeritus
Re: Does massless charge exist!??

Whether something exists or not has nothing whatsoever to do with your emotional well-being. It isn't a choice or something we made up.

Zz.

15. Dec 14, 2011

Drakkith

Staff Emeritus
Re: Does massless charge exist!??

Perhaps you are misunderstanding what Mass is. It is usually taken to be the Rest Mass of a particle. Other terms such as Reletivistic Mass are no longer used due to confusion and such. Since a photon cannot be at rest, it cannot have rest mass, therefor its mass is zero. However, in General Relativity both mass and energy contribute to gravity, meaning that photons are affected by and contribute to gravity. Did you know this?

16. Dec 14, 2011

jobsism

Ah, I see...I'm just a beginner, so I guess I was only voicing what I knew...

Thanks to everyone for enlightening me! :)

17. Dec 15, 2011

granpa

Re: Does massless charge exist!??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koide_formula

The Koide formula is an unexplained relation discovered by Yoshio Koide in 1981. It relates the masses of the three charged leptons so well that it predicted the mass of the tau.

The mystery is in the physical value. The masses of the electron, muon, and tau are measured respectively as me = 0.510998910(13) MeV/c2, mμ = 105.658367(4) MeV/c2, and mτ = 1,776.84(17) MeV/c2, where the digits in parentheses are the uncertainties in the last figures.[1] This gives Q = 0.666659(10).[2] Not only is this result odd in that three apparently random numbers should give a simple fraction, but also that Q is exactly halfway between the two extremes of 1⁄3 and 1.

18. Dec 15, 2011

Pengwuino

Re: Does massless charge exist!??

Photons do not carry electric charge.

19. Dec 15, 2011

phydev

Re: Does massless charge exist!??

I know dear! You should not have quoted me, because i know very well what my ques. was!
I wrote that line quoting him as a reply to tell him that EM related object need not have mass as he said.

20. Dec 15, 2011

phydev

Re: Does massless charge exist!??

yes but it doesn't have any charge...
i asked for massless electric charge!!

21. Dec 15, 2011

phydev

Re: Does massless charge exist!??

nice piece of information!
thanks!

22. Dec 15, 2011

phydev

Re: Does massless charge exist!??

:P well... that again doesn't make any sense...!
:)

23. Dec 15, 2011

phydev

Re: Does massless charge exist!??

Yes, exactly!

24. Dec 15, 2011

Pengwuino

Re: Does massless charge exist!??

I seem to be having some reading deficiencies tonight. My apologies.

25. Dec 15, 2011

phydev

Re: Does massless charge exist!??

Well, I knew this... and what I meant by massless is zero rest-mass.
I have few more ques.

Should a massless particle always move at speed of c?
And
What would be the physics of a charge moving at speed of c?
How would be it's EM field?
How would it affect the space-time?

Thanks!