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Does Our Creator Have A Creator Itself?

  1. Oct 21, 2004 #1
    i've just recently found out about this board, and i think that Michio Kaku is a genius, and i just thought i'd register and try to get active. I'm only 15 though, so bare with me because im not as smart as some of these people here who are college students, but anyways, i was just wondering..when people say that everything had to come from somewhere (assumed to be god) than where did god come from? he couldnt have created himself? so is it possible for our own god to have a god himself, or is it like a never ending chain of gods?? It's just confusing for me, give me your opinions.
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 21, 2004 #2


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    Would you really BARE yourself in my company? (:wink:)
    As to your question, don't you find it lays bare the inadequacy of the "God hypothesis" as an explanation to everything?
  4. Oct 21, 2004 #3


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    i heard the norwegians anyway bare themselves in the lakes there in norway, so perhaps it's a custom in your land. :rofl:
  5. Oct 21, 2004 #4
    An opponent would say: 1) Not everything has a cause. 2) God's definition is such that it doesn't need a cause. I'd like to agree with 1) but it's difficult issue. And about 2): the nature of these 'supernatural' phenomena is such that it doesn't need 'natural reasons', but supernatural ones suffice. IMHO the supernatural and the non-existing do have much in common.
  6. Nov 4, 2004 #5
    If God was created, he would by definition, not be God.
  7. Nov 4, 2004 #6


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    the important point is, theres no need for a god. its superfluous. if you say that god is supernatural, and therefore does not need a creator, then why not just say the universe is supernatural, and it created itself? im not saying i know theres no god, im saying it doesnt help explain anything.
  8. Nov 5, 2004 #7
    our god, creator, may not know any better than we, whether or not s/he/it has a creator.

    who knows, we may have spawned (created) infinite universes with our thoughts.? our thoughts are energy and energy creates worlds, ????

    just typing out loud.

    olde drunk
  9. Nov 6, 2004 #8
    Lol, I like the idea of "typing out loud".

    Alfred North Whitehead called Christianity a "religion in search of a netaphysic". I suspect that what he meant was exactly the God problem. Postulating a creator God doesn't in itself solve the creation problem, it just moves it back by a step.
  10. Nov 6, 2004 #9
    I would think that in the domain where time and space do not exist, there is no need for a first cause anymore.
  11. Nov 6, 2004 #10


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    The question "why does god exist?" is not a trivial one, as some would have you think. Sure, you can say "it's beyond our understanding," and thats probably true. But you have to understand, that doesn't answer the question, and it doesn't help us understand why we're here.
  12. Nov 6, 2004 #11
    What does it mean to say something is a god? For religions that believe in many gods, it seems that being a very mighty being who exists in a supernatural realm is enough to qualify. For religions that believe in one god, then only the supernatural being that created everything qualifies to be considered a god.

    If you were created by a lesser god, then would you consider that it deserves worship for being your creator, or would only the ultimate being who created it qualify? What if the creator wasn't an intelligent being, would it then still deserve worship?
  13. Nov 7, 2004 #12
    God has obviously tried to create superior beings like himself, wouldn't you say? he created beings called angels that were both good and bad to help God but only some did.

    God obviously needs to evolve, or else he might die and some of his angels might take over.
  14. Nov 7, 2004 #13


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    This seems to get us back to the squabbling, inept gods of the Iliad and the Goetterdemmerung.
  15. Nov 7, 2004 #14
    Too much nonsense to me.
  16. Nov 7, 2004 #15
    age doesnt really have too much to do with being smart....dont worry about it. i'm only 18 and i actively participate in these things too. ...so welcome
  17. Nov 7, 2004 #16

    wow.....i dont even believe in god but dont you believe that god has always been there? from the beginning of time? and if so......isnt he eternal and cannot die?
  18. Nov 8, 2004 #17
    Mythically God created the world in only six days in the beginning of time for them who exist in this world so he must have used a motive for this masterpiece. Other worlds must have allready existed. I don't know if god has always been there or if he will always exist. Perhaps there are other worlds with other gods etc.
  19. Nov 8, 2004 #18
    God makes sense, a causeless universe does not

    A material universe is by definition causeless since its existence is dependent on brute fact. A self-creating universe is no exception since an infinite time ago the universe still existed, hence it never was created, it just always existed - therefore, even a self-creating universe existed without cause. This means that there exists an infinite collection of 'past moments' that were uncaused, which contradicts our notion of causation as being something that is linked to the previous actions (and not something that always existed). Thus, a material universe without God is non-sensical.

    A logical-based universe is quite another story. In this case, there are logico-mathematical laws that require there to be a universe, and the 'cause' of every event is based on a holistic account of matter, energy, and physical law (i.e., metaphysical laws) that provide a causative account for every event in the universe.

    Since any logico-mathematical law is a deduction from its axioms, the axioms are 'true'. If something is inherently 'true', this requires there to be a conceptual structure that provides meaning to the term 'true'. This meaning of truth requires for their to be intelligence and consciousness since axiomatic truths are language based, and language requires intelligence and consciousness to exist. Therefore, God is synonymous with the existing of truth (and logic).
  20. Nov 9, 2004 #19
    I think our supposed "creator" was created by those he supposedly "created", that is, the Almighty is just a Godly figure that man dreamt up to cure his insecurities.
  21. Nov 9, 2004 #20
    No, that's not correct.
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