Does the photon have a 4-velocity in a medium?

In summary, the paper by Leonhardt, Ulf (2006), "Momentum in an uncertain light", says that the photon in a dielectric medium moves at the dielectric light speed.
  • #71
physicsforum01 said:
And the level of English is poor; I fear that most readers would be irritated by the quality of the English.
I didn't put that on the list because it is most likely due to not being a native speaker, and I try to make allowances for that. However, that is one of the things that is particularly problematic in single author papers. Even when they are native speakers, having additional people work on it together helps avoid bad English.
 
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  • #72
DaleSpam said:
... Regarding specific weaknesses of this paper:
...
Poor understanding of background literature
...

The author claims “no experimental observations of light momentum are quantitatively in agreement with the formulation given by Abraham” (http://dx.doi.org/10.1139/cjp-2015-0167); however, Abraham pressure of light has been confirmed by a recent experimental study (https://dx.doi.org/10.1088%2F1367-2630%2F17%2F5%2F053035 ), although the validity of the analysis of the experiments is questioned (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham%E2%80%93Minkowski_controversy).
 
  • #73
DaleSpam said:
I find the position of Pfeiffer et al the most compelling.

http://arxiv.org/abs/0710.0461

They are not the first to recognize the correct resolution of this question, but I like their paper a lot.

I love the review paper by Pfeiffer et in Reviews of Modern Physics (http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/RevModPhys.79.1197), but I love the paper by Barnett more in Physical Review Letters (http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevLett.104.070401), because Physical Review Letters has a higher journal Eigenfactor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eigenfactor), more reliable and better quality, although Barnett's paper is a single-author paper.
 
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  • #74
vanhees71 said:
...
The proof uses the four-dimensional Gauss integral theorem and was known for sure to Poincare and von Laue. There is a lot of confusion in the textbook literature about this, because often the authors forget this fundamental mathematics of tensor calculus and the integral theorems. Then you have all kinds of unnecessary nonsense debates about "hidden momentum" (there's no such thing but just mechanical and electromagnetic stress and the details of the famous formula ##E=m c^2##, which implies that also stress adds to the total invariant mass of a composite system), the famous "4/3 problem" in the theory of charged extended bodies (charged classical point particles do not exist in the strict sense at all), etc. The only good thing about this is that you have nice examples to analyze within the correct machinery of tensor analysis, and von Laues books on relativity are masterpieces in doing right this.

...
Hidden momentum in a hydrogen atom and the Lorentz-force law

J. S. Oliveira Filho and Pablo L. Saldanha
Phys. Rev. A 92, 052107 – Published 12 November 2015
http://journals.aps.org/pra/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevA.92.052107

In this work we used perturbation theory to compute the hidden momentum of a hydrogen atom in the presence of an external electric field when the magnetic dipole moment is due to the orbital angular momentum of the electron. We used two different methods for computing this quantity and obtained the same results, evidencing the existence of hidden momentum in the system and the consequent validity of the Lorentz force law in quantum systems.
 
  • #75
vanhees71 said:
... for an arbitrary inertial frame (let's discuss only the special relativistic case first) a tensor field ##T^{\mu \nu \rho\ldots}## leads to a four-tensor of lower rank via
$$\mathcal{T}^{\nu \rho\ldots}=\int_{\mathbb{R^3}} \mathrm{d}^3 \vec{x} T^{0\nu \rho \ldots},$$
only if
$$\partial_{\mu} T^{\mu \nu\rho\ldots}=0.$$
...
However, “… it is shown that the divergence-less itself is neither a sufficient nor a necessary condition” (http://dx.doi.org/10.1139/cjp-2015-0198)
Note: $$\partial_{\mu} T^{\mu \nu\rho\ldots}=0$$ is called "divergence-less".

Based on the divergence-less, the energy-momentum tensor is traditionally required to be symmetric to meet the conservation of angular momentum. For example, the review paper by Pfeifer et al indicates:

“The electromagnetic energy-momentum tensor of Minkowski was not diagonally symmetric, and this drew considerable criticism as it was held to be incompatible with the conservation of angular momentum.” (http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/RevModPhys.79.1197)

A recent review paper by Bethune-Waddell and Chau also indicates that symmetry of the energy-momentum tensor is a necessary condition to satisfy conservation of angular momentum; coped below:

Symmetry of the energy-momentum tensor (equation (15)) is satisfied by only the Abraham, Einstein–Laub, Amperian, and Chu postulates. The Minkowski postulates form an energy-momentum tensor that is asymmetric, which has been argued to exclusively satisfy relativistic transformations [73, 77]. On the other hand, the Minkowski postulates can be made to form an energy-momentum tensor that is symmetric—a necessary condition to satisfy conservation of angular momentum …” (Rep. Prog. Phys. 78 (2015) 122401; http://dx.doi.org/10.1088/0034-4885/78/12/122401)

However this traditional view is also questioned in the article (http://dx.doi.org/10.1139/cjp-2015-0198):

“In ref. 2, the book by Landau and Lifshitz, the divergence-less of a tensor is taken as a sufficient condition, as shown in Eq. (32.6) on p. 83 and Eq. (32.11) on p. 84. The symmetry of the tensor is claimed to be required by “the law of conservation of angular momentum” by repeating use of their version of Laue’s theorem; see Eq. (32.10) on p. 84. As shown in Sect. 4 of the present paper, however, the divergence-less is never a sufficient condition; thus the correctness of the requirement of the symmetry is also questionable.”
 
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  • #76
physicsforum01 said:
Hidden momentum in a hydrogen atom and the Lorentz-force law

J. S. Oliveira Filho and Pablo L. Saldanha
Phys. Rev. A 92, 052107 – Published 12 November 2015
http://journals.aps.org/pra/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevA.92.052107

In this work we used perturbation theory to compute the hidden momentum of a hydrogen atom in the presence of an external electric field when the magnetic dipole moment is due to the orbital angular momentum of the electron. We used two different methods for computing this quantity and obtained the same results, evidencing the existence of hidden momentum in the system and the consequent validity of the Lorentz force law in quantum systems.
Hm, I've to read the interesting paper in detail, but already in their classical analogy (which is widely discussed in textbooks like Griffiths's) it becomes very clear that there is no hidden momentum anywhere. It's just that you have to evaluate all momenta (both that of the matter/charges and the electromagnetic field) relativistically. That's it. There is conserved total momentum, but nothing is hidden anywhere. Of course, you get contradictions, when you evaluate one part of the momentum non-relativistically (in this example the momentum of the matter) and the other relativistically (using the Poynting vector for the em. field means to evaluate a relativistic momentum of the em. field). Of course, an approximation is not exact, which is why it is an approximation, but nothing indicates that momentum is in any way hidden.

I also couldn't agree more with the statements in Sect. IV. As far as I know, all this was known and contained already in papers by Poincare and von Laue in the 1910s or 20s.

As I said, I still have to understand, what's discussed for the quantum case. It's not clear to me, how you can resolve an apparent problem of the "hidden momentum" type using the nonrelativistic Hamiltonian of the object under consideration (here a hydrogen atom).
 
  • #77
physicsforum01 said:
However, “… it is shown that the divergence-less itself is neither a sufficient nor a necessary condition” (http://dx.doi.org/10.1139/cjp-2015-0198)
Note: $$\partial_{\mu} T^{\mu \nu\rho\ldots}=0$$ is called "divergence-less".

Based on the divergence-less, the energy-momentum tensor is traditionally required to be symmetric to meet the conservation of angular momentum. For example, the review paper by Pfeifer et al indicates:

“The electromagnetic energy-momentum tensor of Minkowski was not diagonally symmetric, and this drew considerable criticism as it was held to be incompatible with the conservation of angular momentum.” (http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/RevModPhys.79.1197)

A recent review paper by Bethune-Waddell and Chau also indicates that symmetry of the energy-momentum tensor is a necessary condition to satisfy conservation of angular momentum; coped below:

Symmetry of the energy-momentum tensor (equation (15)) is satisfied by only the Abraham, Einstein–Laub, Amperian, and Chu postulates. The Minkowski postulates form an energy-momentum tensor that is asymmetric, which has been argued to exclusively satisfy relativistic transformations [73, 77]. On the other hand, the Minkowski postulates can be made to form an energy-momentum tensor that is symmetric—a necessary condition to satisfy conservation of angular momentum …” (Rep. Prog. Phys. 78 (2015) 122401; http://dx.doi.org/10.1088/0034-4885/78/12/122401)

However this traditional view is also questioned in the article (http://dx.doi.org/10.1139/cjp-2015-0198):

“In ref. 2, the book by Landau and Lifshitz, the divergence-less of a tensor is taken as a sufficient condition, as shown in Eq. (32.6) on p. 83 and Eq. (32.11) on p. 84. The symmetry of the tensor is claimed to be required by “the law of conservation of angular momentum” by repeating use of their version of Laue’s theorem; see Eq. (32.10) on p. 84. As shown in Sect. 4 of the present paper, however, the divergence-less is never a sufficient condition; thus the correctness of the requirement of the symmetry is also questionable.”
That's why I talked about the Belinfante energy-momentum tensor which is (of course) symmetric and gauge invariant. You cannot draw easily conclusions from a gauge dependent quantity like the canonical energy-momentum tensor, which, however leads to the same total momentum, no matter whether it is divergence less or not, because it differs from the Belinfante tensor only by a total divergence.
 
  • #78
vanhees71 said:
Hm, I've to read the interesting paper in detail, but already in their classical analogy (which is widely discussed in textbooks like Griffiths's) it becomes very clear that there is no hidden momentum anywhere. ... There is conserved total momentum, but nothing is hidden anywhere. ..., but nothing indicates that momentum is in any way hidden.
...

However Prof. Griffths indicates in their recent work:

[9] W. Shockley and R. P. James, Phys. Rev. Lett. 18, 876 (1967); W. H. Furry, Am. J. Phys. 37, 621 (1969); V. Hnizdo, Am. J. Phys. 65, 515 (1997); ref. 5, Example 12.12. The term \hidden momentum" is perhaps unfortunate, since it sounds mysterious or somehow illegitimate. Elsewhere, Mansuripur calls it “absurdity" (M. Mansuripur, Opt. Commun. 283, 1997 (2010), p. 1999). But hidden momentum is ordinary relativistic mechanical momentum; it occurs in systems with internally moving parts, such as current-carrying loops. Thus a Gilbert dipole in an electric field, having no moving parts, harbors no hidden momentum. See D. J. Griffths, Am. J. Phys.60, 979 (1992), p. 985. In any event, hidden momentum is not a “problem" to be “solved," as Mansuripur would have it, but a fact, to be acknowledged.

See: David J. Griffths and V. Hnizdo, Comment on “Trouble with the Lorentz Law of Force: Incompatibility with Special Relativity and Momentum Conservation" ; http://arxiv.org/pdf/1205.4646v1.pdf
 
  • #79
vanhees71 said:
That's why I talked about the Belinfante energy-momentum tensor which is (of course) symmetric and gauge invariant. You cannot draw easily conclusions from a gauge dependent quantity like the canonical energy-momentum tensor, which, however leads to the same total momentum, no matter whether it is divergence less or not, because it differs from the Belinfante tensor only by a total divergence.

The Belinfante-Rosenfeld tensor is a modification of the energy momentum tensor that is constructed from the canonical energy momentum tensor and the spin current so as to be symmetric yet still conserved. http://www.digplanet.com/wiki/Belinfante%E2%80%93Rosenfeld_stress%E2%80%93energy_tensor [Broken]

Namely, Belinfante-Rosenfeld energy-momentumtensor is symmetric and divergence-less. However the article (http://dx.doi.org/10.1139/cjp-2015-0198) concludes:

“It is found in the paper that, the Landau-Lifshitz version of Laue’s theorem (where the divergence-less of a four-tensor is taken as a sufficient condition) and the Weinberg’s version of Laue’s theorem (where the divergence-less plus a symmetry is taken as a sufficient condition) are both flawed, although they are widely accepted as well-established basic results of tensor calculus [2,3]. That is because the two versions of Laue’s theorem are directly negated by the specific examples of the charged meta sphere and the finite electrostatic equilibrium structure, for which the EM stress-energy tensor is both symmetric and divergence-less, but the space integrals of the time-row (column) elements of the tensor cannot constitute a Lorentz four-vector, as shown in Sec. 4 and Sec. 5.”
 
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  • #80
physicsforum01 said:
However Prof. Griffths indicates in their recent work:

[9] W. Shockley and R. P. James, Phys. Rev. Lett. 18, 876 (1967); W. H. Furry, Am. J. Phys. 37, 621 (1969); V. Hnizdo, Am. J. Phys. 65, 515 (1997); ref. 5, Example 12.12. The term \hidden momentum" is perhaps unfortunate, since it sounds mysterious or somehow illegitimate. Elsewhere, Mansuripur calls it “absurdity" (M. Mansuripur, Opt. Commun. 283, 1997 (2010), p. 1999). But hidden momentum is ordinary relativistic mechanical momentum; it occurs in systems with internally moving parts, such as current-carrying loops. Thus a Gilbert dipole in an electric field, having no moving parts, harbors no hidden momentum. See D. J. Griffths, Am. J. Phys.60, 979 (1992), p. 985. In any event, hidden momentum is not a “problem" to be “solved," as Mansuripur would have it, but a fact, to be acknowledged.

See: David J. Griffths and V. Hnizdo, Comment on “Trouble with the Lorentz Law of Force: Incompatibility with Special Relativity and Momentum Conservation" ; http://arxiv.org/pdf/1205.4646v1.pdf

Sure, Griffiths is usually right with his analysis (at least, I don't know any wrong statement in his very nice papers at Am. J. Phys.), but he still keeps the indeed very unfortunate notion of "hidden momentum". There's nothing hidden and nothing problematic, as long as one treats everything relativistically. It's due to the sad fact that even new textbooks follow the tradition to first treat the in-medium Maxwell theory in the non-relativistic approximation and then having to "repair" this flaw with an extra chapter on "relativistic electrodynamics", where they then talk about "hidden momentum", which is just momentum treated consistently with the field, i.e., relativistically. I never understood, why somebody intends to write such traditional textbooks about E&M, because there's already the comprehensive book by Jackson, which is very hard (if not impossible) to make better than it already is (or better was until he introduced the SI in the 3rd edition, but that's a minor flaw compared to the non-relativistic treatment of in-medium CED, and Jackson of course uses Gaussian units when discussing the relativistically covariant theory).

Mansuripur usually writes paradoxical papers, which I find a shame to be published in refereed journals. The best of those are the refutations by other authors like Jackson or Griffiths ;-).
 
  • #81
I cannot read the Canadian Journal, because I've no access to it. This Wang, however, seems to come to very strange conclusions. How can the usual treatment by von Laue et al be wrong? It's a mathematical theorem. Maybe you can construct artificial fields/charge-current distributions which do meet the conditions for which the theorem is valid. Usually this is related with some idealization of a real physics situation. There is e.g., trivial trouble if you consider an infinite cylindrical wire or an everywhere homogeneous electrostatic field, etc. but these are unphysical idealizations/approximations to a real situation.
 
  • #82
DaleSpam said:
...on researchgate(http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Changbiao_Wang3/publications [Broken]). ...
To #81 vanhees71
From the above link given by DaleSpam, you have free access to this Wang paper. http://www.researchgate.net/publication/283709557_CanJPhys_93_p1470_(2015) [Broken]
 
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<h2>1. What is a photon's 4-velocity in a medium?</h2><p>A photon's 4-velocity in a medium refers to its velocity in four-dimensional space-time, taking into account both its speed and direction of motion. In a medium, the 4-velocity of a photon is affected by the properties of the medium, such as its refractive index and density.</p><h2>2. Why is the 4-velocity of a photon important in a medium?</h2><p>The 4-velocity of a photon in a medium is important because it determines the behavior of the photon as it travels through the medium. It affects the speed and direction of the photon, as well as its interactions with other particles in the medium.</p><h2>3. How does the 4-velocity of a photon change in different mediums?</h2><p>The 4-velocity of a photon can change in different mediums due to the properties of the medium, such as its refractive index and density. These properties can cause the photon to slow down or change direction, altering its 4-velocity.</p><h2>4. Can the 4-velocity of a photon be measured in a medium?</h2><p>Yes, the 4-velocity of a photon can be measured in a medium using various experimental techniques. These measurements can provide valuable information about the properties of the medium and the behavior of the photon within it.</p><h2>5. How does the 4-velocity of a photon in a medium relate to the speed of light?</h2><p>The 4-velocity of a photon in a medium is related to the speed of light, as the speed of light is the maximum speed at which a photon can travel in a vacuum. In a medium, the speed of light may be slower due to interactions with the medium, which can affect the photon's 4-velocity.</p>

1. What is a photon's 4-velocity in a medium?

A photon's 4-velocity in a medium refers to its velocity in four-dimensional space-time, taking into account both its speed and direction of motion. In a medium, the 4-velocity of a photon is affected by the properties of the medium, such as its refractive index and density.

2. Why is the 4-velocity of a photon important in a medium?

The 4-velocity of a photon in a medium is important because it determines the behavior of the photon as it travels through the medium. It affects the speed and direction of the photon, as well as its interactions with other particles in the medium.

3. How does the 4-velocity of a photon change in different mediums?

The 4-velocity of a photon can change in different mediums due to the properties of the medium, such as its refractive index and density. These properties can cause the photon to slow down or change direction, altering its 4-velocity.

4. Can the 4-velocity of a photon be measured in a medium?

Yes, the 4-velocity of a photon can be measured in a medium using various experimental techniques. These measurements can provide valuable information about the properties of the medium and the behavior of the photon within it.

5. How does the 4-velocity of a photon in a medium relate to the speed of light?

The 4-velocity of a photon in a medium is related to the speed of light, as the speed of light is the maximum speed at which a photon can travel in a vacuum. In a medium, the speed of light may be slower due to interactions with the medium, which can affect the photon's 4-velocity.

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