Is a Degree in Astronomy Worth the Struggle?

[soupbadger]

I've been lurking these forums for a long time, but I never really bothered to sign up until recently. I am far from the level that most people are on here, but here goes anyway..also, apologies for the super long post. I wanted to be sure I explained as much as possible.

I am attempting to major in Astronomy at my local Community College, however after quite a few personal setbacks it has taken me years, yes YEARS, to even get through my general requirement courses. I told my advisor that not taking any REAL science courses (I aced all the soft sciences and they really bored me) was really bringing me down, so this upcoming Spring semester will be my first semester in which I will be taking natural science courses, specifically Chemistry and Astronomy. I guess a little history may be required. When I was in high school I had no interest in college. I did all the guidance counselor garbage: filling out applications, pretending to care, and all that. I always put Astronomy as my intended major, because I have had an interest in it since I could read. I just wanted out of high school, though. After High School I got a shiny new job at a famous retail chain and it did not take me long to decide that I needed to go to college. I don't know if it was coincidence or if the college really wanted me to attend (I'm going to go with coincidence), but the first year I attended was the first year they offered Astronomy. I have spent almost five years in this school trying to get my A.S. and it is really bringing me down. Because of health issues and the four hours of sleep per night during my first two years, I have had to play catch-up on my grades. I made a C in Calculus, which apparently showed my advisor I needed Finite Math. That set me back a year and a half itself. Personally, I believe the only reason I did poorly was because I had never seen trig functions before and had no idea what they did. Last semester I took Pre-Calc and made an A in trig, so I think I'm ready to jump back in. Additionally, I tended to fall in love with Calculus when I first took it. I obviously didn't understand it completely, but I loved the concept and the equations themselves were just beautiful to me. I would often spend hours making up my own problems and attempting to solve them. But, I digress. My grades have since improved vastly (though I think quitting my job earlier this year has helped...but, that's another story entirely) and I will be graduating in 2012, finally, with my little A.S. Recently I have been reading that an associate's degree is useless. That's pretty hard to hear. I mean I know an A.S. isn't the best thing in the world, but useless? Ugh. I had big plans when I first decided to pursue an advanced education. I wanted to get a PhD and have the satisfaction of knowing I mastered something I am greatly interested in and that I was a documented scientist like all of the people I respect and look up to. Physics/Astronomy/Astrophysics is the only thing I am really passionately interested in. I'm not doing this for the money or the reputation, but because I want to learn as much as possible about this subject. My advisor tried to talk me into engineering, but I just really enjoy Astronomy or if not that, then Theoretical Physics. I know it is a long shot and I have all but given up on this, but my dream college is U.C. Berkeley. My GPA is a bit rough, though, and I often joke that at the rate I am going I won't get my B.S. for another six years. I planned on getting my A.S. and either dropping off the face of the planet or moving to California and trying to get into a state university for my Masters and selling some organs to attend UCB for my PhD. The former is sounding like more of an option right now. I really don't want to give up and have to work in a factory for the rest of my life like everyone else does in this dead-end town. I love reading about physics and theories and I get ridiculously excited thinking about taking physics courses. But, maybe I'm not smart enough for physics. It's a nice dream and all, but perhaps that's where it should stop. A dream. Anyway, I guess the question or whatever I am typing this for is...any advice? Anyone have a similar situation? I've read similar situations on the forums, but these people seem to have things a bit more together than I feel I do. I'm also worried that my credits won't transfer anywhere, though my advisor says they will transfer anywhere. Does anyone have any experience with transferring an A.S. to the other side of the USA?

Also, here's an amusing anecdote depending on your sense of humor. The only D I ever made pre-college was in Physics my senior year. I know, right? I knew that astronomy and physics went hand-in-hand, but I just wanted to get out and be done with it. However, after high school I began reading books about physics on my own and it's just like something clicked.

Also, also, sorry again for the really long post. I guess I got a little carried away. :uhh:

 

[nlsherrill]

I've been lurking these forums for a long time, but I never really bothered to sign up until recently. I am far from the level that most people are on here, but here goes anyway..also, apologies for the super long post. I wanted to be sure I explained as much as possible.

I am attempting to major in Astronomy at my local Community College, however after quite a few personal setbacks it has taken me years, yes YEARS, to even get through my general requirement courses. I told my advisor that not taking any REAL science courses (I aced all the soft sciences and they really bored me) was really bringing me down, so this upcoming Spring semester will be my first semester in which I will be taking natural science courses, specifically Chemistry and Astronomy. I guess a little history may be required. When I was in high school I had no interest in college. I did all the guidance counselor garbage: filling out applications, pretending to care, and all that. I always put Astronomy as my intended major, because I have had an interest in it since I could read. I just wanted out of high school, though. After High School I got a shiny new job at a famous retail chain and it did not take me long to decide that I needed to go to college. I don't know if it was coincidence or if the college really wanted me to attend (I'm going to go with coincidence), but the first year I attended was the first year they offered Astronomy. I have spent almost five years in this school trying to get my A.S. and it is really bringing me down. Because of health issues and the four hours of sleep per night during my first two years, I have had to play catch-up on my grades. I made a C in Calculus, which apparently showed my advisor I needed Finite Math. That set me back a year and a half itself. Personally, I believe the only reason I did poorly was because I had never seen trig functions before and had no idea what they did. Last semester I took Pre-Calc and made an A in trig, so I think I'm ready to jump back in. Additionally, I tended to fall in love with Calculus when I first took it. I obviously didn't understand it completely, but I loved the concept and the equations themselves were just beautiful to me. I would often spend hours making up my own problems and attempting to solve them. But, I digress. My grades have since improved vastly (though I think quitting my job earlier this year has helped...but, that's another story entirely) and I will be graduating in 2012, finally, with my little A.S. Recently I have been reading that an associate's degree is useless. That's pretty hard to hear. I mean I know an A.S. isn't the best thing in the world, but useless? Ugh. I had big plans when I first decided to pursue an advanced education. I wanted to get a PhD and have the satisfaction of knowing I mastered something I am greatly interested in and that I was a documented scientist like all of the people I respect and look up to. Physics/Astronomy/Astrophysics is the only thing I am really passionately interested in. I'm not doing this for the money or the reputation, but because I want to learn as much as possible about this subject. My advisor tried to talk me into engineering, but I just really enjoy Astronomy or if not that, then Theoretical Physics. I know it is a long shot and I have all but given up on this, but my dream college is U.C. Berkeley. My GPA is a bit rough, though, and I often joke that at the rate I am going I won't get my B.S. for another six years. I planned on getting my A.S. and either dropping off the face of the planet or moving to California and trying to get into a state university for my Masters and selling some organs to attend UCB for my PhD. The former is sounding like more of an option right now. I really don't want to give up and have to work in a factory for the rest of my life like everyone else does in this dead-end town. I love reading about physics and theories and I get ridiculously excited thinking about taking physics courses. But, maybe I'm not smart enough for physics. It's a nice dream and all, but perhaps that's where it should stop. A dream. Anyway, I guess the question or whatever I am typing this for is...any advice? Anyone have a similar situation? I've read similar situations on the forums, but these people seem to have things a bit more together than I feel I do. I'm also worried that my credits won't transfer anywhere, though my advisor says they will transfer anywhere. Does anyone have any experience with transferring an A.S. to the other side of the USA?

Also, here's an amusing anecdote depending on your sense of humor. The only D I ever made pre-college was in Physics my senior year. I know, right? I knew that astronomy and physics went hand-in-hand, but I just wanted to get out and be done with it. However, after high school I began reading books about physics on my own and it's just like something clicked.

Also, also, sorry again for the really long post. I guess I got a little carried away. :uhh:

I'll admit, when I saw how long this post was I was hesitant to read it. Luckily, since I am being a complete lazy slob in bed right now, I decided to read it. I think I *may* have some advice.

I too had trouble with community college...at least the whole transferring to a university part of it. A lot of my courses didnt transfer, so make sure that they will! Second of all, I am not sure why it took you over 5 years to work on an A.S.?? I mean I was stuck at a CC for 3 years instead of 2 basically because I failed a math class(because of apathy at the time). My advice for you would be to speak to your advisor, and an advisor at a potential university and see if all of you can work together on a common goal. It was really essential for me to have good communication between these 2 advisors. Secondly, I don't see how, if you have already spent this long at a CC, that a B.S. would require 4-5 extra years. I transferred in as a freshman in physics after 3 years at a CC, and if all goes well I can graduate in 3 years. So only 2 years longer than normal, which isn't that bad seeing as I just messed around for the first 3 years and didn't take life seriously.

And lastly, before you transfer to a university and take your first "real" physics course, take AT LEAST Calculus 1. The kids in my first year mechanics class that were in Calc 1 during the course struggled.

Good luck

 

[Vanadium 50]

First suggestion - paragraphs!

Second suggestion - I think you need a realistic plan to get where you want to go. A PhD takes ~10 years past high school, and an AS is 1.5 to 2 of them. So you have 5-6 times as far to go as you have gone now, and it's taken you 5 years to get this far, you need to count on 25-30 more years to finish.

If those numbers don't look appealing to you, you're going to have to figure out a way to pick up the pace. One place to start is to try and understand why it took so long to get this far.

 

[symbolipoint]

soupbadger,
Consider changing your intended field - at least to choose something practical so you can get a good job. Could you pick some technical field involving electronic or equipment maintenance or repair? Anything applied to processes or manufacturing? Computer skills, computerized planning? These are not quite "astronomy", but maybe job-training skills are worth considering and you had not thought about them? Maybe you can also build funds with your regular work to pay for part time courses in Mathematics and Physics?

 

[discrete*]

I've been lurking these forums for a long time, but I never really bothered to sign up until recently. I am far from the level that most people are on here, but here goes anyway..also, apologies for the super long post. I wanted to be sure I explained as much as possible.

I am attempting to major in Astronomy at my local Community College, however after quite a few personal setbacks it has taken me years, yes YEARS, to even get through my general requirement courses. I told my advisor that not taking any REAL science courses (I aced all the soft sciences and they really bored me) was really bringing me down, so this upcoming Spring semester will be my first semester in which I will be taking natural science courses, specifically Chemistry and Astronomy. I guess a little history may be required. When I was in high school I had no interest in college. I did all the guidance counselor garbage: filling out applications, pretending to care, and all that. I always put Astronomy as my intended major, because I have had an interest in it since I could read. I just wanted out of high school, though. After High School I got a shiny new job at a famous retail chain and it did not take me long to decide that I needed to go to college. I don't know if it was coincidence or if the college really wanted me to attend (I'm going to go with coincidence), but the first year I attended was the first year they offered Astronomy. I have spent almost five years in this school trying to get my A.S. and it is really bringing me down. Because of health issues and the four hours of sleep per night during my first two years, I have had to play catch-up on my grades. I made a C in Calculus, which apparently showed my advisor I needed Finite Math. That set me back a year and a half itself. Personally, I believe the only reason I did poorly was because I had never seen trig functions before and had no idea what they did. Last semester I took Pre-Calc and made an A in trig, so I think I'm ready to jump back in. Additionally, I tended to fall in love with Calculus when I first took it. I obviously didn't understand it completely, but I loved the concept and the equations themselves were just beautiful to me. I would often spend hours making up my own problems and attempting to solve them. But, I digress. My grades have since improved vastly (though I think quitting my job earlier this year has helped...but, that's another story entirely) and I will be graduating in 2012, finally, with my little A.S. Recently I have been reading that an associate's degree is useless. That's pretty hard to hear. I mean I know an A.S. isn't the best thing in the world, but useless? Ugh. I had big plans when I first decided to pursue an advanced education. I wanted to get a PhD and have the satisfaction of knowing I mastered something I am greatly interested in and that I was a documented scientist like all of the people I respect and look up to. Physics/Astronomy/Astrophysics is the only thing I am really passionately interested in. I'm not doing this for the money or the reputation, but because I want to learn as much as possible about this subject. My advisor tried to talk me into engineering, but I just really enjoy Astronomy or if not that, then Theoretical Physics. I know it is a long shot and I have all but given up on this, but my dream college is U.C. Berkeley. My GPA is a bit rough, though, and I often joke that at the rate I am going I won't get my B.S. for another six years. I planned on getting my A.S. and either dropping off the face of the planet or moving to California and trying to get into a state university for my Masters and selling some organs to attend UCB for my PhD. The former is sounding like more of an option right now. I really don't want to give up and have to work in a factory for the rest of my life like everyone else does in this dead-end town. I love reading about physics and theories and I get ridiculously excited thinking about taking physics courses. But, maybe I'm not smart enough for physics. It's a nice dream and all, but perhaps that's where it should stop. A dream. Anyway, I guess the question or whatever I am typing this for is...any advice? Anyone have a similar situation? I've read similar situations on the forums, but these people seem to have things a bit more together than I feel I do. I'm also worried that my credits won't transfer anywhere, though my advisor says they will transfer anywhere. Does anyone have any experience with transferring an A.S. to the other side of the USA?

Also, here's an amusing anecdote depending on your sense of humor. The only D I ever made pre-college was in Physics my senior year. I know, right? I knew that astronomy and physics went hand-in-hand, but I just wanted to get out and be done with it. However, after high school I began reading books about physics on my own and it's just like something clicked.

Also, also, sorry again for the really long post. I guess I got a little carried away. :uhh:

It seems like you have the pop-sci syndrome. I don't want to sound like a jerk, but it seems to me that you have very unrealistic expectations of yourself and of science. A C in calculus at the community college level is hard to reconcile when you're talking about things like astronomy and theoretical physics.

For example, to talk about a PhD at this point is just plain silly. Focus on getting your A.S. and making the transfer to a B.S. program. Also, you need to consider that astronomy is not commonly offered as an undergraduate major; you may need to major in physics instead. (this depends on where you go to do your B.S.) To be quite honest, I'm shocked that you're at a school that offers an associates degree in astronomy.

Also, you said that you had spent hours making up calculus problems and trying to solve them. This is, in general, a very bad idea -- especially if your grade was suffering in the first place. You can love the idea of the calculus all you'd like, but if you can't actually do it than what's the point?

My advice to you is to do a little reflection on where you're at and where you're headed -- and be realistic. Self-deception is hurting only yourself. Form a plan, finish up your A.S. (get the hell out of there, ASAP), and than go for your bachelors. Study your maths as hard as you can, because if you do go on to university, mathematics will be critical to your study of physics and astronomy. As a side note, perhaps you should look into astronomy as a profession to try and get an idea of what modern astronomers do. It may clear up a lot of things for you. Good luck.

 

[hadsed]

soupbadger,
Consider changing your intended field - at least to choose something practical so you can get a good job. Could you pick some technical field involving electronic or equipment maintenance or repair? Anything applied to processes or manufacturing? Computer skills, computerized planning? These are not quite "astronomy", but maybe job-training skills are worth considering and you had not thought about them? Maybe you can also build funds with your regular work to pay for part time courses in Mathematics and Physics?

I think this is good advice. There are many very good students who don't end up working in astronomy or astrophysics because there isn't a huge demand for those kinds of jobs. They do however get jobs that involve creating numerical models or software engineering. Most astrophysicists have strong backgrounds in programming, so that ability can be applied elsewhere in industry (though it's not very likely that an astrophysicist will be able to do astrophysics or any kind of physics in industry, most industry jobs deal with condensed matter and that sort of thing).

You just have to figure out if you're willing to spend years and years, at your current rate, longer than most people would take to do an astrophysics Ph.D (10 years, from the time they graduate high school till they successfully defend their thesis). You should take the necessary steps to make sure that you're employable in the event that you aren't able to go to graduate school for whatever reason. That means maybe pick some programming classes and some numerical analysis classes. If you really love all of physics and you want to be doing physics as a career, you might want to look into more applicable fields of physics (like condensed matter). Again though, if astrophysics/astronomy is what you love, you can still get a job but you should weigh your options of getting a BS in engineering and making a good amount of money guaranteed (basically) or taking so much more time to do your Ph.D and get the same sort of job.

Another thing is that you really aren't far enough in your education to know exactly what different types of physicists even do. It may turn out that you hate programming or that you completely suck at it. If that's the case then you might be a little screwed. On the other hand, you might eventually find quantum mechanics to be absolutely fascinating and you may want to get into a field that frequently uses that. Flip through an engineering book on statics and dynamics sometime, you could probably understand it if you've taken introductory mechanics. See if that sort of thing floats your boat. Or wait till circuits in your intro to e&m class to see if that's what you like.

All I'm saying is make sure to keep an open mind, you never know what might interest you in the future.

 

[twofish-quant]

Recently I have been reading that an associate's degree is useless. That's pretty hard to hear. I mean I know an A.S. isn't the best thing in the world, but useless? Ugh. I had big plans when I first decided to pursue an advanced education. I wanted to get a PhD and have the satisfaction of knowing I mastered something I am greatly interested in and that I was a documented scientist like all of the people I respect and look up to.

One step at a time...

Now that you have your associate, you can take upper division classes at a university, where you can get involved with undergraduate research, and then figure out if you really like it or not. If you like undergraduate research and can get decent grades, then you can think about grad school.

Two things to remember:

1) you get the Ph.D. after you do research

2) you have to learn to feel stupid. The more you know, the more you know that the less you know. Getting a Ph.D. is a terrible idea if you want to feel smart, because you'll be spending the rest of your life being constantly reminded about how stupid you really are.

I'm not doing this for the money or the reputation, but because I want to learn as much as possible about this subject.

That's nice but

1) you still have to eat
2) and a lot of getting done with a Ph.D. is learning how to limit yourself.

I really don't want to give up and have to work in a factory for the rest of my life like everyone else does in this dead-end town.

They call universities "idea factories" for a reason. One reason I think you need to get involved in real research as quickly as possible is that once you see what real research is like, you in a better position to know whether you want to spend the rest of your life doing it.

The other thing is that once you get away, you may learn that you hate physics, but something else might interest you.