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Dr. Kaku mean by god of order?

  1. Oct 14, 2003 #1
    What does Dr.Kaku mean by god of order?what does He do?What is meant by cosmic consciousness?
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2013
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 16, 2003 #2
    Re: God

    No one really knows what Dr. Kaku's beliefs are. He just stays quiet about it, seems to me.
    But he does insert the "God" word in a lot of his presentations- perhaps just to simplify the concept in terms everyone will understand.

    Some guy named Buddabout claimed that the doctor is a pantheist (that the universe is the "mind of God") and claimed that Einstein believed that, too (that there really is no spiritual entity but that God is everything).
    Don't know. Whatever the case, most people who are into science fit into one of five groups:

    1. disbelieve in God (most times with emotional reasons to go along with that) and sometimes even vehemently oppose and belittle anyone else's belief in a God or gods

    2. unsure of God's existence/inexistence and do not really care one way or the other (do not passionately oppose or agree)

    3. see hints of a designer and after learning much about the cosmos, decide that there probably is a creator(s) and that we might/might not someday come to know who or what it is.

    4. believe in God because they are or have been a member (usually raised in) of a religion or a cult and are taught to believe in a God(s)

    5. believe in spirituality because of a personal spiritual experience but are not necessarily a member of anyone's religion or in agreement with other people or groups who believe in God.

    I don't think that leaves anyone out.

    But Dr. Kaku? Maybe he doesn't want anyone to know what he believes for sure, because it is such a touchy subject with many people.
    Or it could be that he has not made up his mind (doesn't consider that there is enough empirical evidence).

    I'm still contemplating what Ten Years After said about "fired sand". Wouldn't that be glass?
    Or maybe that's how silicon chips are made?
  4. Oct 16, 2003 #3


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    Whenever I read "God of Order", first image I get is that of Spinoza.

    Read up on Spinoza.:smile: Methinks that is what Kaku is referring to, as Einstein did.
  5. Oct 16, 2003 #4


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    I don't know about Dr. kaku, but you're right about Einstein. He greatly admired Spinoza's thought.
  6. Oct 18, 2003 #5
    i thinks mk is an atheist, i just got that impression from reading his books
  7. Oct 26, 2003 #6
    First and formost it is important to have a common agreement on our definiton of GOD in order to have a meaningfful disscusion of God.

    If the phsycial Universe is eternal then there is no creator of the physical Universe.
    Energy cannot be created nor destroyed appears to be an absolute truth i.e. an eternal cosmic law/principle ergo the physical Universe is eternal and not created regardless of what physical form it may take from time to time.

    Universe/Cosmos/God/God{des}/Great Spirit/Great Momma/Allah/ALL/Krishna may all reprsent or be defined the same way depending on who you talk too, but, under each label/terminology if we ask a 100 people for their defintion we may get 100 difefrrent definitons.

    God like love, spirit and soul and many other words gets thrown around alot with only a glimpse of commonality at times.

    The universality of spirituality implies that (W)holism is holy.

    Holy {W}holism
    By Rybo6 alias Os-jbug

    {W}holism is holy,
    Spirituality is universal,

    The one contains the many,
    The sum of the many spirits,
    May aggregate as one soul.

    The pattern of soul,
    Via polyspirits interrelationships,
    Is the divine consciousness,
    Of God{des} awareness.

    One soul, one mind,
    Many spirits,
    Many states of consciousness,
    Awareness of the many,
    Is semi-divine access,
    To the complexity of God{des}.

    Universe is,
    Many finite spirits,
    Many finite souls,
    One finite God{des},
    One finite whole.

    Spirituality is,
    The infinite accessing of,
    And search for,
    The divine awareness,
    Of the complexity of intterrelationships,
    Of the finite whole.

    Thereby supporting the integrity
    Of the pattern,
    Of biologic life,
    And its support systems.
  8. Nov 1, 2003 #7
    I think that, both Einstien and Kaku both realize that there is no way that this universe could have came about by a big bang...there is no logical way that from high entropy came this and the inner workings of all of our world, and universe

    But, they are to high on their horses, to admit that there may be a creator to all of this
  9. Apr 23, 2004 #8
    Rybo: with all do respect, Einstein as a Jew knew better than Christians the concept of God of dynamic energy as interpreting Isaiah 40:26. It seems Spinoza, Einstein and probably Kaku shared the idea of energetic intelligence as pantheistic idea. If God is the source of energy He doesn't need a "father" or a "God" to create Himself before but indeed He transforms part of His own source into matter. Yet, Osho or mystic Rajneesh will give a better explantion with the illustration of a dance functioning in armony with the dancer, both co-existing, neither creature nor creation. But unfortunately not too many people would understand the Jewish mind as Einstein did and I will have to explain why the letter for Bere**** is closed in Hebrew and thus, the "beginning" is unknown but we can only know after the Big Bang events. In his personal letters he used the Hebrew name of God. So, it's not really total pantheism. If the universe is an hologram or ilusion, we don't exist really, are just proyections of God's mind, a mere thought within the Universe. Unless you think you really are conscious being and real SELF with free will and no destiny, or we can prove mankind history is not just an already recorded program in the universe, something not even Kaku would know!
  10. Sep 15, 2004 #9


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    I find there are four questions that science raises that point beyond science, from physics to metaphysics.
    The questions are:
    1. Why does the universe bother to exist? As Stephen Hawking has said, “Although science may solve the problem of how the universe began, it cannot answer the question: Why does the universe bother to exist?” He went on to ask, when contemplating the Theory of Everything, “What is it that breathes fire into the equations and makes a universe for them to describe?”
    2. Why is the universe so fruitful, that is propitious for life? The Anthropic question, “The world is as it is because we are” (S.H.) but why?
    3. Why can we solve the mysteries of the universe by scribbling on the backs of old envelopes in an armchair?” (As Einstein is said to have done.) “The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is comprehensible.” (A.E.)
    4. How is that atoms, after bouncing around together for billions of years in a Newtonian way, should produce life and a consciousness capable of asking such awkward questions?

    These questions may be given a deistic, theistic or atheist answer; each requires a stance of faith, either in the existence of God or the non-existence of God. The existential choice is yours…

    Last edited: Sep 15, 2004
  11. Sep 15, 2004 #10
    Just thought it worth to mention here about the "Omega point" theory, a sort of variation within the pantheist / holistic views (not that I'm a defender of it, but just for discusion):

    The tendency (or "purpose"?) of the universe is to become fully aware of itself.

    The stage we are currently into, in which we as individual beings experience an individual consciousness (fragmented and isolated agregations of information acquired and processed), will develop into a social or common shared consciousness (sort of a colony of insects but much higher level) in which the isolated information fragments become more and more agregated.

    This common consciousness would be a single information-processing entity encompassing more and more of the energy in the universe, thus accumulating more and more knowledge about the universe and the rules governing its behaviour.

    Eventually, when all the information in the universe is absorbed or comprehended by such an entity, the universe has become fully self-aware of itself (the Omega point). Universal consciousness effectively becomes god itself (maybe ready to understand that the only meaningful step to take is to let itself start a new cycle?)

    Needless to say this is pure speculation and poses lots of questions (just for one, it seems this would only work if the universe re-collapses again in a big crunch)
  12. Sep 15, 2004 #11
    Biggest thing to remember is that size does not matter!
    God (creator) is the universe, universe is God. Thus understanding the universe is to as Hawking described, "to know the mind of God". How much of this is true is beyond my knowledge, however I do know that size does not matter when you look at the big picture.
  13. Sep 15, 2004 #12
    I disagree, I felt from reading his book "VISIONS" that he does on a personal note, believe in an OBSERVER,CREATOR,GOD however being of science, he stays indirect about his beliefs due to lack of there proof.
  14. Sep 16, 2004 #13


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    I have heard Dr Kaku state directly that "phyisists and cosmologists are among the few scientists who can speak of god without snickering. But when we talk about god, we do not mean a person or being, necessarily, but rather the god of order; the physical laws that govern our universe...". This quote is not exact, but as close as my memory will get. Nonetheless, the meaning is clear; Dr Kaku is an atheist, and claims science or the laws of physics as his "god".
  15. Oct 21, 2004 #14
    The concept of God is best left to religion because it is an idea with no empirical evidence and only obfuscates effort to do real science. The concept of god is a pseudoscientific concept representing the human desire for science to explain that which it cannot explain. Real science does not do "purpose of life," "reason for living," or "why does the universe exist?". It is ok to do pseudoscience as long as we remember it is just that.
  16. Oct 22, 2004 #15
    God is what you believe or want it to be.

  17. Oct 23, 2004 #16
    God does exist in various different senses, but I don't agree he exists in the way that religious folk believe. I've been studying and questioning the existence of God since I was very young, and I've come to the conclusion that he exists on various different plains depending on your own beliefs and thoughts on society, nature, and above. For some, God is the ominous truth of all existence. For others, God is everyone and everything as a whole. Where the Christian God contradicts with some of this, the Christian's God actually has a link of universal truth with all beliefs in God.

    -Brad Barron
  18. Oct 23, 2004 #17

    Tom Mattson

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    Let's keep on topic, folks. This thread is about Dr. Kaku's concepton of god.
  19. Oct 23, 2004 #18
    Sorry about that. I just thought I'd converse on the broad topic of God.

    -Brad Barron
  20. Oct 23, 2004 #19

    Tom Mattson

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    I wasn't talking about your posts, I was talking about the ones that I just deleted. :wink:

    I actually think that your comments could be helpful to someone who has not read Kaku's book. They help prepare the mind for non-religious discussions of the subject.

    But I do want to see the thread get its focus back, and not turn into a free-for-all.

    As you were...
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2004
  21. Oct 23, 2004 #20
    I think he means

    cosmic consciousness is an awareness the underlying dimension of consciousness implied by the duality of the self and the soul...

    ...the repository of knowledge and truth we tap into but aren't fully aware of, the God factor in all of us that makes us aware of our surroundings and orders them into coherence but strictly on a personal level

    what "he/God" does is sit back and laugh while waiting for us to evolve to the point where we can comprehend him...

    How's that Tom ??? :wink:
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