Dr. Michio Kaku America Has A Secret Weapon

[Willowz]

Dr. Michio Kaku speaks out.



What do you think? Are we focusing too much attention of foreign students or are Americans just plain stupid?

 

[Willowz]

I'm also wondering. How many privileges do these geniuses have over American students?

 

[Evo]

I'm also wondering. How many privileges do these geniuses have over American students?

What do you mean by privileges?

 

[BobG]

Fifty Years of Math 1959 - 2009 (in the USA )

Last week I purchased a burger at Burger King for $1.58. The counter girl took my $ 2 and I was digging for my change when I pulled 8 cents from my pocket and gave it to her. She stood there, holding the nickel and 3 pennies, while looking at the screen on her register. I sensed her discomfort and tried to tell her to just give me two quarters , but she hailed the manager for help. While he tried to explain the transaction to her, she stood there and cried.. Why do I tell you this?Because of the evolution in teaching math since the 1950s:

1. Teaching Math In 1950s

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price. What is his profit ?

2. Teaching Math In 1960s

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price, or $80. What is his profit?

3. Teaching Math In 1970s

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80.. Did he make a profit?

4. Teaching Math In 1980s

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80 and his profit is $20. Your assignment: Underline the number 20.

5. Teaching Math In 1990s

A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is selfish and inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the preservation of our woodlands. He does this so he can make a profit of $20. What do you think of this way of making a living? Topic for class participation after answering the question: How did the birds and squirrels feel as the logger cut down their homes? (There are no wrong answers, and if you feel like crying, it's ok. )

6. Teaching Math In 2009

Un hachero vende una carretada de maderapara $100. El costo de la producciones es 4/5 del precio. Cuanto dinero ha hecho?

Those that were raised thinking life should be easy sit on the sidelines and those that were raised thinking hard work is a normal part of life take over. It's the American way. We've always relied on immigrants for the human energy necessary for progress.

 

[berkeman]

Your killing me here, Bob!

 

[edward]

Young people have lost the skill of dealing with the extra change, because the cash register computes the correct change. even if the cashier understood the transaction it would be difficult to get the cash register to accept it. I don't even bother any more.

 

[Evo]

Stop, I can't take it! I can hardly type through the tears!

Oh wait, it's true!

 

[Willowz]

Do they receive automatic funding and grants for studying in the US? That would be seem like a privilege.

 

[Evo]

Do they receive automatic funding and grants for studying in the US? That would be seem like a privilege.

No more than American students, I would imagine, unless they have access to some additional funding, who knows?

 

[SW VandeCarr]

BobGTeaching math in the 1980's

4. A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80 and his profit is $20. Your assignment: Underline the number 20.
6. Teaching Math In 2009

Un hachero vende una carretada de maderapara $100. El costo de la producciones es 4/5 del precio. Cuanto dinero ha hecho?

How do you underline in Spanish?

EDIT: BTW it's ...madera para..., two words.

 

[ThomasT]

Dr. Michio Kaku speaks out.



What do you think? Are we focusing too much attention of foreign students or are Americans just plain stupid?

Neither, imo. There's just more foreign students and hence more foreign phd candidates. And a lot of them, who have the funding (eg., via their families or prospective employers or scholarships/grants), apply to US grad schools and get accepted. At least the US still has most of the best schools in the world. There will come a time when that's no longer the case.

But Kaku was talking about H-1B visa. The H-1B is a way for US employers to benefit from skilled (ie., educated -- minimum of 4-year undergrad degree is required I think) foreign labor, which is desirable because they work for a lot less money than their American counterparts.
(And, as he pointed out, in some cases, and increasingly so, there are no American counterparts.)

The H-1B program is littered with 'middlemen' who offer foreign graduates a certain 'contract' for a price. There have been problems with scams related to this, sometimes leaving the foreign graduate with no money, no job, and no place to live. More often they're simply forced to work for much less money than they had been led to believe they would be getting.

Anyway, I agree with Kaku's point that the level of academic/scientific proficiency of the US-born population is declining, and that the H-1B program is necessary for US science and industry.

 

[WhoWee]

Those that were raised thinking life should be easy sit on the sidelines and those that were raised thinking hard work is a normal part of life take over. It's the American way. We've always relied on immigrants for the human energy necessary for progress.

I think it will take at least one more generation of decline before we demand higher standards in the classroom. As the Math 2009 demonstrates - we don't even require that immigrants (legal or otherwise) learn our language - let alone proper English.

 

[turbo]

Young people have lost the skill of dealing with the extra change, because the cash register computes the correct change. even if the cashier understood the transaction it would be difficult to get the cash register to accept it. I don't even bother any more.

Simply clear the transaction and enter the new amount tendered and the amount owed. Not a problem with modern registers, though some morons operating the registers will panic if faced with such a situation.

If you own a store and are willing to let your cashiers deal with people who may be willing to scam you, you need to make sure that your employees are calm and patient under pressure, even if there is a long line of customers waiting. That is the best time for scammers to take advantage of your employees, so that is the time when patience and attention to detail are most needed.

A woman that I know owns a liquor store/convenience store in the county seat. I asked her one time why the counter wrapped all the way around the front of the store to the exit, so that it would be impossible for her clerks to get to the exit quickly if they wanted. She said that If someone wanted to steal liquor, beer, or wine, she'd rather use the security cameras and the local cops to deal with the issue, instead of letting her employees get into confrontations with the thieves. Fair enough. Her employees are all pretty large, physically, including the women, but she doesn't want to endanger any of them.

 

[ParticleGrl]

The issue isn't a lack of qualified Americans- Michio Kaku has no idea what he is talking about. The US graduates more top scoring science students than any other country on earth. We also graduate more low scoring students then we should, but the low scoring students would never end up going into science, even if we raised their scores to average (which we should). The real lack is jobs in science.

http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2005/02/tale-of-two-geeks.html

For better or worse, science takes 10+ years of education for a career that usually lasts only 5 years or so after (all postdocs). I spent a decade studying physics and I TEND BAR BECAUSE IT PAYS BETTER. I'd love a job in my field, but there are hundreds of applications for every open position all very talented, so what are my chances of actually getting one?

And because there is NO shortage of engineers, etc, no one is willing to take a chance on a physicist in an engineering position or other out-of-my-field work.

As a first world student- pursuing a job in science is a huge economic disadvantage. Thats the whole issue. Its not that Americans are stupid, or poorly educated, etc. Kaku has done his credibility a disservice, and presented the "shortage of scientists" myth that lead me into this dead-end field.

 

[Ryumast3r]

You also have to consider that the United States only has about 300 million people in it, but a lot more people than just americans come to american institutions.

So when he says 50% of all graduates in science aren't american... well... no surprise there really. Especially since people specifically CHOOSE america to come to in order to get a scientific education. There's a lot more people outside the United States than inside (really, i promise!).

Like someone pointed out, if you take the top 1% (intellectually) of China (Total pop, not workforce pop), it equals basically the entire workforce of the U.S., and that's just China. Now obviously not all of them are coming over to the U.S. to study, but a lot of people are.

Does this mean we should be lazy and say that there is no problem? No. Of course there's a problem with our primary/secondary education, but I don't think it's a severe crisis as of yet, not by any means.

 

[WhoWee]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/25/education/25iht-educbriefs.html
"The number of international students who applied to pursue graduate studies in the United States in 2011 rose by 9 percent over the previous year, the sixth year of growth, according to a new report."

 

[Evo]

Simply clear the transaction and enter the new amount tendered and the amount owed. Not a problem with modern registers, though some morons operating the registers will panic if faced with such a situation.

Once total has been hit, on the new registers that I've seen, a change requires them to call a supervisor, who has to insert a key, then type their employee ID and a void code, which will then allow the cashier to make the change. I'm always apologizing if I need to make a change or spot a price error after the sale has been totaled. I'm assuming it's to prevent the cashier from going back and changing the sale and pocketing money.

 

[turbo]

Once total has been hit, on the new registers that I've seen, a change requires them to call a supervisor, who has to insert a key, then type their employee ID and a void code, which will then allow the cashier to make the change. I'm always apologizing if I need to make a change or spot a price error after the sale has been totaled. I'm assuming it's to prevent the cashier from going back and changing the sale and pocketing money.

Didn't know about that, though in larger stores that's probably the case. In the smaller stores around here, it seems that cashiers can clear transactions and re-enter them, though. I'm sure that the cleared transactions show up in the record at the end of each cashiers' shift, so too much of that might send up a flag. Back before registers were "smart" my wife took a part-time job with a large retailer, and was amazed at the number of people who couldn't be trusted on registers because they didn't have the math skills needed to give correct change. So this is not a new problem - it was a problem over 30 years ago.

 

[ThomasT]

The issue isn't a lack of qualified Americans- Michio Kaku has no idea what he is talking about.
...

The real lack is jobs in science.
...

Kaku has done his credibility a disservice, and presented the "shortage of scientists" myth that lead me into this dead-end field.

On Googling some recent census and job stats, it appears that you're correct and that Kaku has mischaracterized the situation, as there doesn't seem to be a shortage of qualified (phds) American scientists for any particular position.

Outsourcing of high tech jobs by US employers via H-1B visas (which apparently has nothing to do with shortages of qualified US personel) seems to be advantageous to employers for economic and control reasons, and 'necessary' only insofar as it improves employers' bottom lines -- while at the same time doing harm to the higher skilled segment of the US workforce that it affects, and possibly (ironically) precipitating a trend toward decreased production of graduate science related degrees among Americans (as more prospective scientists among US born and raised become aware of the actual situation, and thus choose a different career).

The above statements, based on my cursory 'research' and assumed incomplete understanding of the situation, are tentative, and I hope that people who are somewhat more knowledgeable about this subject than me (such as you, ParticleGrl) will elaborate a bit more about it.

Kaku says that scientific research in US academia and industry is 'dependent' on foreign born scientists. I'm wondering what, exactly, he means by this because the stats I've looked at, as well as statements by you and others on the internet, suggest otherwise. On the other hand, I've been lucky enough to be acquainted with a few top scientists working in the US in the fields of biophysics and condensed matter physics who are foreign born.

Is Kaku only talking about the foreign born among the very top echelon of US scientists, and if so then what does H-1B have to do with that (and just what is the percentage of foreign born among the US scientific elite?)?

It seems that the US doesn't really need to increase its rate of American born science, technology, engineering and mathematics graduates, but rather to decrease the incentives for hiring foreign born personel (or even to establish disincentives for such hiring practices).

Have our elected representatives, while (via political expediency) advocating a solution to a problem (shortage of US born graduates in science, technology, engineering and mathematics) which apparently doesn't exist, created (via legislation) conditions under which the probability of such a problem eventually developing is increased?

Regarding the lack of jobs in science, I suspect that this would be the case even without the hiring of foreign born scientists.

 

[WhoWee]

The issue isn't a lack of qualified Americans- Michio Kaku has no idea what he is talking about. The US graduates more top scoring science students than any other country on earth. We also graduate more low scoring students then we should, but the low scoring students would never end up going into science, even if we raised their scores to average (which we should). The real lack is jobs in science.

http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2005/02/tale-of-two-geeks.html

For better or worse, science takes 10+ years of education for a career that usually lasts only 5 years or so after (all postdocs). I spent a decade studying physics and I TEND BAR BECAUSE IT PAYS BETTER. I'd love a job in my field, but there are hundreds of applications for every open position all very talented, so what are my chances of actually getting one?

And because there is NO shortage of engineers, etc, no one is willing to take a chance on a physicist in an engineering position or other out-of-my-field work.

As a first world student- pursuing a job in science is a huge economic disadvantage. Thats the whole issue. Its not that Americans are stupid, or poorly educated, etc. Kaku has done his credibility a disservice, and presented the "shortage of scientists" myth that lead me into this dead-end field.

A week or 2 ago - in a different thread - this was your specific opinion.

"

To ignore what a nobel prize winner says on the basis of your personal biases is the height of arrogance.

"

Accordingly, care to support your assertions?

 

[Evo]

A week or 2 ago - in a different thread - this was your specific opinion.

""

Accordingly, care to support your assertions?

Can you eplain what you are asking? What does her post have to do with a comment about a nobel prize winner?

 

[WhoWee]

Can you eplain what you are asking? What does her post have to do with a comment about a nobel prize winner?

Like him or not, Dr. Michio Kaku is an expert in his field. PG dismissed him and contends he doesn't know what he's talking about - and posted a blog to support her attack on his credibility?

 

[Evo]

Like him or not, Dr. Michio Kaku is an expert in his field. PG dismissed him and contends he doesn't know what he's talking about - and posted a blog to support her attack on his credibility?

Does his field make him an expert on Visas? Does it make him an expert on employment or education? I didn't read the other post that was linked so I don't know what the context was.

 

[ParticleGrl]

Like him or not, Dr. Michio Kaku is an expert in his field. PG dismissed him and contends he doesn't know what he's talking about - and posted a blog to support her attack on his credibility?

Michio Kaku is an expert in string field theory, and if his statement were about string-field theory, I would understand deferring to him (though I am no slouch myself, having a phd in theoretical high energy).

He is not an expert on the scientific labor market, but Harvard labor economist Richard Freeman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_B._Freeman) is. Here are some paper's Freeman has authored http://www.nber.org/papers/w11457, http://www.bos.frb.org/economic/conf/conf51/conf51d.pdf). The take away point from his abstract

The job market has worsened for young workers in S&E fields relative to many other high-level occupations, which discourages US students from going on in S&E, but which still has sufficient rewards to attract large immigrant flows, particularly from developing countries.

Further, as a recent phd looking for work, I would argue that my direct knowledge of the scientific labor market is likely considerably better than Kaku's, who is comfortably tenured and spends the majority of his time writing about future technologies.

Also, quotes from Kaku's own website:

As a result, the average age of a physicist increases 8 months per year, meaning that there is very little new hiring.

However, for the diehards who wish to do physics in spite of a bad job market, you may plan to have a “fall-back” job to pay the bills (e.g. programming) while you conduct research on your own time.

So Kaku himself is suggesting that the job market for scientists is pretty awful- there is little no hiring, and you should expect to find a non-science/engineering job to pay the bills while you conduct your own research.

 

[BobG]

Like him or not, Dr. Michio Kaku is an expert in his field. PG dismissed him and contends he doesn't know what he's talking about - and posted a blog to support her attack on his credibility?

I've got to agree with the others. Being an expert in his field doesn't make him an expert on things outside his field. That's a common flaw people make in judging others and why advertisements using famous sports stars work so well. "Anybody who can throw a pass as good as Peyton Manning has to know what car is best to buy!" "If Sean Penn is voting for this guy and he has to know what he's talking about - he played a politician in a movie!" "I saw Fred Thompson in Law and Order and I know he'd make a great President"

 

[WhoWee]

I've got to agree with the others. Being an expert in his field doesn't make him an expert on things outside his field. That's a common flaw people make in judging others and why advertisements using famous sports stars work so well. "Anybody who can throw a pass as good as Peyton Manning has to know what car is best to buy!" "If Sean Penn is voting for this guy and he has to know what he's talking about - he played a politician in a movie!" "I saw Fred Thompson in Law and Order and I know he'd make a great President"

Along with Stephen Hawking, I think it's reasonable to say Dr. Kaku is one of the "faces of modern science and physics" to many people - he seems to be everywhere talking about science and trying to spark interest among young students. Is it really fair to make these comparisons? He's out there using his star power to promote science to US students - not selling cars or running for office.

http://science.discovery.com/tv/sci-fi-science/michio-kaku-bio.html

http://mkaku.org/

http://www.facebook.com/michiokaku

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/4/13/dr_michio_kaku_on_physics_of

 

[edpell]

Migrants to pick farm produce cheaper than Americans. H1B visas to do engineering and science cheaper than Americans. The government serves the owning class not the working class.

 

[ParticleGrl]

I think it's reasonable to say Dr. Kaku is one of the "faces of modern science and physics" to many people - he seems to be everywhere talking about science and trying to spark interest among young students.

And the surest way to kill interest in young students is to point out the actual realities of the job market. Better to advertise a shortage and tell people there are jobs waiting for them (even if its a flat out lie). Human capital is (after all) expendable- there is a new generation of suckers coming up the pipeline.

Is it really fair to make these comparisons? He's out there using his star power to promote science to US students - not selling cars or running for office.

He is trying to SELL science as a career to suckers like myself. The more suckers end up in grad school, the cheaper science gets. Its great for consumers of science, but terrible for actual scientists.

Keep in mind the quotes from his website he posted- he recommends getting a phd in physics so you can then find a job as a programmer (which has no added value from your phd) so you can research in your spare time. We can't all be gentleman(gentlewoman) scientists- some of us have to eat.

 

[ThomasT]

A few more thoughts on this:

Whether the best and brightest scientists in the world choose to pursue their careers in the US or in their home countries has apparently nothing to do with US secondary school education or the H-1B program.

As would be expected, with advancements in all countries, and regardless of the general quality of US secondary school education and the H-1B program, US born scientists comprise a decidedly minority, and decreasing, percentage of the world scientific community.

The US, because of its wealth and range of opportunities, has been a magnet for top notch scientific talent, and the level of excellence of US colleges and universities and industrial and business centers of scientific research and development has been to some extent dependent on this influx of foreign talent. Even though this continues to be the case, if it's decreasingly so, then maybe Kaku is saying that in order to stay in the forefront of scientific innovation the US will have to boost the level of its secondary educational system wrt science, technology, engineering and mathematics. Though there might be something to that, I don't have an opinion on it yet and tend to think that such increases in the level of secondary school education as might be possible won't significantly affect the rate of emergence of US born top scientific talent.

Wrt H-1B visas, their primary effect seems to be to provide US employers with cheaper middle and lower level technical workers. As such, since the H-1B program ostensibly exists to fill positions that can't be filled by US graduates, then it's based on lies -- because there certainly seem to be enough US graduates in science, technology, engineering and mathematics to fill every position occupied by a lower paid foreign national.

So, in a sense, maybe the H-1B program can be, as Kaku has, characterized as "America's secret weapon". However, it seems to be a weapon directed against America's home grown talent in science, technology, engineering and mathematics.

 

[edpell]

US wealth?