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Eden garden's story

  1. May 27, 2003 #1
    How many of you really think that this story makes sense on the depravity of human's nature?

    Were Adam and Eve ready for the test from God and temptation from Satan?

    I always feel it is the most ridiculous story in the world, which assumes to explain the original cause of imperfection in human's nature.
  2. jcsd
  3. May 27, 2003 #2
    Welp, back the humans didn't know a whole lot about the world. They didn't even know the Earth was round! (did they).

    So, one would expect humans to want answers, and pick the ones that then were the best. Of course there was a bit of story-telling added to it.

    To us these stories are obviously (and provably) false. And in the year 3000 many of the physical concepts we have today will seem childish.

    But I think the different is the element of purposefull story telling. In other words, "they" were'nt attempting a literal and realistic answer, at least I dont take it that way.

    But we still invent "new" stories these days as well, lochness monster is somewhat new, so is bigfoot I guess....

    It's no excuse though, because their are those of us who do not do such things!
  4. May 28, 2003 #3
    Since God is fair and just and he allowed them to be tested we ought conclude that they were ready for the test. To say that they were not ready or that the test was not fair is to imply that God is unjust.
  5. May 28, 2003 #4
    God is omniscience, he can know the future,
    when Adam and Eve failed, it simply proved that "They are note ready".
    But God just acted like a bystander, watching them fail!

    God screwed up!
  6. May 28, 2003 #5


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    The story does not match up with the reality we know. Therefore, I take it as a parable or a myth.
  7. May 28, 2003 #6
    Not me.
    I think before this question can be addressed one has to decide what to ‘believe’ that tree was going to bestow upon the humans who ate of it. I’ve seen all manner of opinion about that…
    If the couple were like children are today then I would say they were no more ready than a modern child who raids a cookie jar after being warned by his parents not to. In fact they would be even less ready due to an 'outsider' trying his best to convince them.
    There are other creation stories by other groups of humans that are likewise absurd.
  8. May 28, 2003 #7
    (Originally post in a previous thread. This is a more appropriate place for it. Royce)

    I have always thought of that story as a metaphor of human evolution.
    Before we became human we were as the beasts in the fields with no knowlege of right or wrong or God for that matter. We had no problems other that surviving and reproducing.
    When we developed enough intelligence to become wise, i.e. develope a moral code and a sense of good and evil, part, I think, of forming societies, then evil came into the our world along with good. We covered our nakedness and learned to labor for our and our society's future benefit. In short we became human and began to know ourselves and strive to know God(s).
    Our falling from grace is a "logical" construction oof the church to explain exactly what you are trying to explain or discuss in this thread. How or why could an all powerful all knowing God create such an imperfect being such as man and allow all the evil and suffering exist in the world of his loving creating.
    I think also the it was and is exploited by the churches to make themselves and indispensable part of our lives and our society to give themselves power over us and of course wealth with out having to really work for it.
    I don't think mankind has fallen but is rather striving to reach a state of grace, a good loving knowing relationship with themselves and their God.
  9. May 28, 2003 #8
    I'm going with the general concensus, which is that this is a parable to try to explain something that modern psycholgy and biology is currently figuring out.
  10. May 30, 2003 #9


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    Royce - Reminds me of an interesting interpretation I heard in which Adam and Eve were not the first humans, but rather the first "spiritually aware" humans (the first humans to connect with God). This would allow for an old Earth & evolution and jibe with Bible history beginning at that more recent point in time.
  11. Jun 24, 2003 #10
    i think before this question is answered we should solve the old god vs evolution debate.
  12. Jun 24, 2003 #11


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    How in the world could someone come up with an interpretation like that from the following?
    This is not the entire chapter, but merely the begining up until god blesses man.

    Nowhere in these words is there anything that even slightly implies the possiblity of other humans. Also, there is no mention anywhere in the bible about dinosaurs, and you would definetly expect to see the worlds oldest species mentioned somewhere in the book about the begining of it all.

    In short, it looks like an ancient bedtime story blown way out of proportion to help manipulate mankind into being afraid of death. Any interpretation that leaves the original text so far as to claim other humans and evolution and such is not only contradicting the bible, but just simply not sensible.
  13. Jun 24, 2003 #12


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    It has been theorised that the genesis account is basically a corruption of an older, more complete one that can be found in the Jewish torah. There you can find mention of Lilith, who was banished from eden for seeking equality with Adam, and went on to fornicate with demons etc etc...
  14. Jun 25, 2003 #13
    Actually, as this is the story which has been handed down over the milleniums, it goes a long way to explain the nature of human development (more so in The West) which has evolved in accordance with it, if you think about it. :wink:

    For instance there's man's incessant need to rule over nature -- after having "fallen to it" -- rather than live in harmony with it. And why is his experience so foreign to it, if in fact he were an actual part of it?

    Then there's his fall to the tree of knowledge, when he could have chosen the tree of life. Is it possible that the tree of life is also the "tree of wisdom?" If so, can you see a correlation here? I suspect that Adam and Eve were not grounded in the "practical understanding" of who they were (i.e., wisdom -- or, that which is "spiritual"), which is why they fell, "through knowledge," to the natural world.

    While how often do we see the temptation of young people to aquire knowledge, without the "practical understanding" to back it up? I rembember going through something similar just after I got out of high school, and it was pretty rough! I had no real sense of identity then, and no means by which to "glean one" (i.e., by faking it), by knowledge alone. Hence I was by no means prepared to live on my own.
  15. Jun 25, 2003 #14
    all this theorizing is well and good, but it doesnt fit in with genetic evolution, science can show that humans evolved from the old world monkys, which had evolved from something else, and something else etc etc, so at which point along evolutional chain did eden take place.
  16. Jun 25, 2003 #15
    But what does the "Garden of Eden" suggest, if not the Gardner (God) who attends to it? And what have gardners been known to do, if not transplant new plants into the garden? Whereas if you can acknowledge that mankind is somehow "separate" from nature, then perhaps this is the best means by which to acknowledge why he's here -- "as a transplant."

    While indeed, the whole chain of evolution seems to exist in order support this "new creation." Or, perhaps another way to put it is that Mother Nature, through evolution, has risen to meet God on His terms (through His influx), at which point He breaths a "living soul" into that which has become most like Himself -- "in His own image."
  17. Jun 27, 2003 #16
    almost all of that went right over my head, natural genetic evolution theory shows us exactly where we come from in the chain of species', and roughly when each change took place.

    eden suggests that we were put here fully formed as humans by god, errhhhh dont think this fits into the chain anywhere.
  18. Jun 27, 2003 #17
    And yet there are two forces which come into play here: the "static principle" -- i.e., that which always was and always will be, and hence the sun -- which represents God; and that which is ever-changing and ever-evolving towards the one constant, i.e., Mother Nature herself or, evolution ... In which case the influx from the sun is really "the culprit" for the existence of life, not evolution itself -- for without it, "nothing" would evolve. Now isn't that a bit of a twist? ... i.e., what is "evolution" evolving towards?

    The only problem with this is that we all have a soul. Or do we? :wink:

    This I know for myself, whether I can convince you or anyone else otherwise. Although I will say the idea is nothing new here, and has been handed down over the eons. I know that's not evidence per se', and yet as an individual I do have a soul, and have been able to ascertain this for myself.
  19. Jun 29, 2003 #18
    erh when you say that nothing would evolve without sun light you are wrong, we would not have evolved the way we have without sunlight, but other life forms would have evolved to live with out sunlight.

    so yes evolution could still go on without sunlight, or any other factor you can think of, life evolves to fill every niche it can. therefore god still goes un-needed. and the eden story still does not fit in anywhere.

    and how do you know you have a soul, you have a mind and you have a body. but what else is there and can you prove you have it.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 29, 2003
  20. Jul 1, 2003 #19

    Yeah, I believe they did. It was that, Satan wasn't part of that "perfect" creation. He was at first, but then he was cast out of heaven. Correct? Well, because of this, he did what he could and man fell. God's creation, that He loved, fell and sin entered into the world. Now, it was their choice, so they did it willingly. Guess that tells us something about everyone - we're all curious. We all know what happened to the cat?

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