Is Education a Right or a Privilege?

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In summary, the students at the University of Witwatersrand were protesting because they were not given financial aid. The university has decided that this is a privilege, not a right. The protesters were shouting that the black students should go back to where they came from. This is a problem that is happening in many parts of the US. The students are protesting because they are not given the same opportunities as other students.
  • #1
mooberrymarz
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Education.. right or privilege??

Yesterday was one hell of a day. I'm from South Africa.. absolutely wikid country and I study in the University of Witwatersrand (best varsity in the country). Well, yesetrday we had the biggest ri0ts since the anti-apartheid ones in '94. It was crazy, the university has cut 50% of its financial aid to students this year. About 3000 students are being forced to leave the university on grounds of academic exclusion/. So yesterday ANCYL and SASCO have a huge boycott thingy, students ran around campus smashing stuff. I was in a lecture and they ran in screaming saying if theye don't get to study neither should we, they physically forced us out of lecture halls. They even ran into the Exams Hall where student were writing an actuarial science paper, and broke financial calculators tore papers up, broke desks and accosted lecturers and students. Its sad that they cut off their financial aid but did they have to violate our right to study? They were shouting stuff like "Go back to ure mansions in houghton and sandton..". It was as if we were at fault for being able to afford university education? they have even made it a race issue, saying that's its just the black students who are froced out of our university... i don't know, but do u guyz think that issues like these can be solved? If the university can't afford it, should the rest of the students be made to suffer? our vice-chancellor has responded saying that given the situation of our country (economically), tertiary education,at the mo, is a not a right but a privilge? wot do u guyz think?
 
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  • #2
First, pardon me if I use the US teirs for examples. If you have questions, I'll try to explain what each of them is.

I believe that a basic education should be made available to everyone. In the US, education is handled mostly on a state to state basis (although that seems to be changing), and I prefer it that way. Every child should be able to get a high school level education.

However, I'm firmly against free university for everyone. I support measures to aid those that are poor in going to university. I don't think that University is a right! I see the kids that fail classes when mommy and daddy pay their way, and I DESPISE the thought of my tax money going to pay for people like that to go to school.

The students that came in an disrupted your schooling are in the absolute wrong. There is no place for that behavior, and it should not be tolerated. Every one of them should be locked up.

In south Africa, you just recently have the ending of government sanctioned racism on the general scale. It will take time for these students to drop the "It's the white peoples' fault"- I wonder what Mandela would think about their actions.
 
  • #3
race issues. Its always brought up in every crisis. funny, our vice chancellor is black. he is a oxford educated mathematician, he didnt grow up with los of cash around him, he is where he is today coz he worked hard. now he has become the enemy, students have been calling him a coconut (black on the outside and white on the inside). I guess its now a crime to be succesful, i can't believe it has come to this. racial tension is surely going to be heating up now,... does this ever happen on US campuses? i don't even know how long this boycott is going to last..
 
  • #4
mooberrymarz said:
race issues. Its always brought up in every crisis. funny, our vice chancellor is black. he is a oxford educated mathematician, he didnt grow up with los of cash around him, he is where he is today coz he worked hard. now he has become the enemy, students have been calling him a coconut (black on the outside and white on the inside). I guess its now a crime to be succesful, i can't believe it has come to this. racial tension is surely going to be heating up now,... does this ever happen on US campuses? i don't even know how long this boycott is going to last..

Just open google. You guys are going through what we many areas of our country are going through as well. In the south, the racial divide is wider, and yes many seem to believe a prosperous black man is oftern only that way because he 'sold out to the white man'. Colin Powell, a very impressive man in my opinion, is labeled an "uncle tom" - He's a Republican Black man who speaks quite properly. Somehow that is a bad thing.

If I knew a solution to all of this, I wouldn't be able to tell you that we have the same problems in some of our areas- granted, S Africa is known for the violence that comes from such racism more than we are (didn't say it doesn't exist). Hopefully the younger generations will soften this racial divide.
 
  • #5
Aside from thinking it an attributte of a truly progressive and advanced civilization, I believe university level education should be free, although an densely educated populace is less likely to be swayed by propagadized superficialities camouflaged as issues or empty rhetoric and therefore better able to elect its governing officials. Ones who would truly represent and act upon the concerns of the people not just a select few.
 
  • #6
amp said:
Aside from thinking it an attributte of a truly progressive and advanced civilization, I believe university level education should be free, although an densely educated populace is less likely to be swayed by propagadized superficialities camouflaged as issues or empty rhetoric and therefore better able to elect its governing officials. Ones who would truly represent and act upon the concerns of the people not just a select few.
University is free in many European Countries - do you believe that is the case there? :wink:
 
  • #7
hmm.. u were asking wot mandela would say.?? Would u believe that it is his politcal party.. The African national congress youth league (ANCYL) and SASCO (student communist org) that are behind the mass action? Its crazy, mandela who stood for unity had been forgotten and so have the leaders of the past. jo slovo, , ebrahim asvat,walter sisulu.. just a distant memory. Some people say that this is just the start, and a whole new Zimbabwe thing will be happening soon. Are u familiar with wots happening in Zim? can u believe that Mugabe is actually one of the dignities at the presidential inauguration?
 
  • #8
mr Amp. the thing is that we cannot afford free university education. Wits is a private institue, and it shall remain that way. however i have heard that the govement does subsidise every black student in wits. I don't know if that is true or not... but i can tell u that South Africa is a new democratic nation, we cannot affor luxuries such as free health care, education.. so for now people will have to just accept that some people have and others do not.
 
  • #9
mooberrymarz said:
hmm.. u were asking wot mandela would say.?? Would u believe that it is his politcal party.. The African national congress youth league (ANCYL) and SASCO (student communist org) that are behind the mass action? Its crazy, mandela who stood for unity had been forgotten and so have the leaders of the past. jo slovo, , ebrahim asvat,walter sisulu.. just a distant memory. Some people say that this is just the start, and a whole new Zimbabwe thing will be happening soon. Are u familiar with wots happening in Zim? can u believe that Mugabe is actually one of the dignities at the presidential inauguration?

I only know the result of what is happening in Zimbabwe - I do not what exactly got started. enlighten me?
Wow! I didn't know that!

Africa, as a whole, has many problems that will only be fixed when the infighting stops. A while back I was incredibly astonished by African responses on the BBC. The question of "What do you think will solve Africa's Brain Drain" was responded to with nothing but full personal accountability by all of the African posters. However, all of the European and American posters responded with something along the lines of "It is our fault that Africa is the way it is." From this reading I gained the idea that many Africans feel the problem lies within, and they know the solution can lie there as well. If that idea is kept as a predominant one, then Africa will one day return to a great continent! I only wish people in my own realized on a general scale that it is our own problems that we must solve, instead of blaming other countries.
It is quite sad to see how the leaders of the past (a whopping 10-20 years ago in most cases!) are being forgotten.
 
  • #10
Its a start. Yes, and I do think those countries the people likely are better represented in their governments which are probably more responsive to their needs.
 
  • #11
amp said:
Its a start. Yes, and I do think those countries the people likely are better represented in their governments which are probably more responsive to their needs.

Cest La Vie - I guess the grass is always greener. I would love for some Europeans to weigh in on this.
 
  • #12
Ok Pmonkey. 1979, independence. to Make things very short.. land repossessions is where it all started. War veterans during the guerilla war felt that they had the right to be rewarded with land after helping the country to gain independence.thats fine, but as a result many of the white owned farms were reposessed. There was a huge food crisis.The government's land reform program, characterized by chaos and violence, nearly destroys the commercial farming sector, the traditional source of exports and foreign exchange and the provider of 400,000 jobs. Zimbabweans start fleeing the country, Mugabe starts acting like a dictator. Morgan tsvangarai (i think that's how u spell it) emerges as an oppositions leader, he gets thrown in jail several times. In the end the country suffers from sky high inflation, its so bad that people actually have to "buy" money. There arnt enough notes to keep up with high prices that some poeple are selling bank notes on the black market. My friend has lost 2 members of his family because they couldn't afford simple cough medicine. chaos. people want thabo mbeki to put pressure on Mugabe to stop his crap, but our president has remained neutral. tony blair tried but Mugabe called him and the british parliment " A gang of gay bandits".
 
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  • #13
And why I mention Zim. Many people believe that the dissatisfaction with those who have not with those who have, will eventually lead to people taking thing into their own hands. Claiming that things are theirs by"right" even if it may not be the case. I dunno.. will have to wait and see.
 
  • #14
hmmmmmm I suppose i should be the first European to join in. Uh... I don't know about other countries but Uni isn't free here in England. In fact the tuition fees are supposed to be going up by about £3000 a year starting in 2005.
 
  • #15
There is more involved here than the issue of "is education a privilege or a right?" There is the issue of a country with what I would assume to be a substantial poverty rate that is in transition that has a very recent history of virulent racism and the emotions that this brings up in a current context involving education.
 
  • #16
Personally, I think education is a privilege after a certain level, but that right should not depend on how much money you have, rather how intelligent you are.

If you hype up each and every level of education, then surely as more and more people do them you are just moving what is the expected qualifications. Then people just have to stay in education for longer racking up a nice little debt you will have to pay off with the money you will be getting from this marvellous job you'll have because like everyone else you will have a degree. Personally I think that after a certain time (high school/GCSE level) kids should be encouraged to be educated towards their own interests, removing any stereotypes that college people are better or whatever, because that isn't true at all. Apprenticeships are a great idea for many jobs, and we need people in those jobs.

As for rioting like that, that's just wrong. If you want what you would call a right given to you, do peaceful actions to get it and show respect for it. Who would want to teach someone who has disrupted exams and lessons? I know I wouldn't.
 
  • #17
Many people don't care to pursue education past certain points ,por exemplo, some stop at a BS/BA, more at MS/MA, few go to PH.D or beyond and not many just for the sake of learning. It shold be obvious that there are advantages to having an open and free lower and higher educational system. What are the problems? Dissent?
 
  • #18
What I think

mooberrymarz said:
i don't know, but do u guyz think that issues like these can be solved? If the university can't afford it, should the rest of the students be made to suffer? our vice-chancellor has responded saying that given the situation of our country (economically), tertiary education,at the mo, is a not a right but a privilge? wot do u guyz think?

Have you ever been poor? Most of the students are acting out of anger because a right that they have been able to take advantage of, has now been denied them. Any time there is change, it will most likely not be taken well. How much more for these peers that, through no fault of their own, are unable to better themselves now because they are not rich enough to do so. While those of you still left studying are wondering how fair it is that they are disrupting your education, you would do very well to consider that your wealth may one day be taken or stolen, leaving you in a much different position. In which case you may better understand the upheaval at your university and the attitudes of those rebelling.
I don't dare say that what they are doing is right, because that is not true, but what is being done to them is not right either. You can catch more flies with honey. The critical thing to do here (in my opinion) is to let the university handle the situation, as they are the ones who have brought about this change. In the meantime, treat those students affected that are rioting with a level of arm's length sympathy, unless you can apply empathy in any amount. The privilege of an education should be granted to anyone who is willing to do the work. Because we don't live in a perfect world, and money seems to be the reason the world actually spins, then take this opportunity to understand that you don't have to be a part of these injustices, and the more likely you are to understand the other side, the less likely you are to become a part of it, through no fault of your own...
 
  • #19
Angel Loupe said:
1>Have you ever been poor?
2> Most of the students are acting out of anger because a right that they have been able to take advantage of, has now been denied them. Any time there is change, it will most likely not be taken well.
3>How much more for these peers that, through no fault of their own, are unable to better themselves now because they are not rich enough to do so. While those of you still left studying are wondering how fair it is that they are disrupting your education,
4> you would do very well to consider that your wealth may one day be taken or stolen, leaving you in a much different position.
5> In which case you may better understand the upheaval at your university and the attitudes of those rebelling.
6> The critical thing to do here (in my opinion) is to let the university handle the situation, as they are the ones who have brought about this change.

1>yes
2>ah yes, entitlement.
3>I don't know what this means, can you clarify?
4>Mine was. My whole life was disrupted, and far more than monetary. I spent the next years building things back and am just now about to reenter higher learning this coming Fall. I am still disgusted by those that blame others for havings something.
5>I don't understand it. When I was put down, my life turned upside down, I didn't go blame anyone for it, even though it was no cause of my own doing that things happened the way they did.
6>The university IS handling it. They have no money, so they are charging for school.
 
  • #20
Okay, let me try a different approach. Again, I stress, that I DO NOT condone their behavior...but do you not think it is unfair what is happening to them? If the tables were turned, would you not feel any animosity? If not, then you are quite a remarkable human being. Generally speaking, one's first reaction is instincts, and these students are not happy for good reason. It is unfortunate that you are being affected, but I was just trying to help make their view a bit clearer to help you appropriately deal with the current situation until the university addresses the problem. And what I meant by having the university handle it, was not that they handle what they have ALREADY OBVIOUSLY done, but that they handle the consequences of their actions.
However, if you have no empathy at all, then there is no sense in me stating anything else. You can not teach someone to be compassionate.
 
  • #21
Angel Loupe said:
Okay, let me try a different approach. Again, I stress, that I DO NOT condone their behavior...but do you not think it is unfair what is happening to them? If the tables were turned, would you not feel any animosity? If not, then you are quite a remarkable human being. Generally speaking, one's first reaction is instincts, and these students are not happy for good reason. It is unfortunate that you are being affected, but I was just trying to help make their view a bit clearer to help you appropriately deal with the current situation until the university addresses the problem. And what I meant by having the university handle it, was not that they handle what they have ALREADY OBVIOUSLY done, but that they handle the consequences of their actions.
However, if you have no empathy at all, then there is no sense in me stating anything else. You can not teach someone to be compassionate.


If I'm understanding the situation right, something that they were receiving because there was extra is being taken away because the funding isn't there. I just simply cannot understand being mad at those that DO have the money to pay for it out pocket. I will be paying for my tuition out of pocket, and my tuition will be going up, up and up. It has taken me more time to go back to school because of less government subsidies, while my friends' parents pay for their entire time at school. Am I angry with my friends? Do I blame them? Not at all! Do I blame the school? No, they have to manage things and if they don't have the money, they simply don't. I live in a democracy, just as those in S Africa do. This seems like a PRIME issue for the government officials to be pressed on. In NO WAY do I possibly understand the rationale of blaming the have's or the school.
I'm hardly an extraordinary human being - I simply have been through not having, and I expect nothing from life. When I gain something, I am incredibly happy for it. Not the polar opposite of being unhappy when I lose something.


Perhaps I am missing what exactly is happening - but how is it the University's fault that this is happening? They don't have money - how can they give these people money that they don't have? The anger is misdirected, and while I feel compassion for anyone who must strive for what they want, I feel nothing for those that infringe on the rights of others because they want to act out like animals or children.
 
  • #22
Angela. i doubt our dear rioters would care much for sympathy or empathy. in fact i think wot they want is to be allowed to study. is it wrong for me to want to the same. our uni has taken in far more students than they can afford to do so at the goverments bidding, but the fact is There is NO MONEY! Maybe u can ask ure wonderful government to throw some money this way... : ) I have signed their petitions but I am firmly against then blocking of entrances to lecture halls and intimidating students and staff.
 
  • #23
mooberrymarz- I'm glad that you shared what's going on there with us. Thank you. I'm wondering if these are students (the rioters) who have been enrolled and now are no longer going to be allowed to continue their education or students who have not yet started university who foresee that they will not be able to afford to attend?
 
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  • #24
Hi mooberrymarz!

Good to see I have a fellow South African in the forum!

Anyway - forgive me for this but I keep track of the newspaper everyday and had absolutely no clue that this is happening at Wits nor has any of my friends studying there told me about these riots. Oh well! :eek:

Firstly I have to agree that what's happening on campus is WRONG! Lectures should not be interrupted in such a way nor should the vandalism be going on. However, not providing financial aid is just as wrong.

On my campus (UKZN - Durban campus) we had something like that happening at the beginning of the year - 250 students were turned away becasue of the cut in financial aid. However, this was resolved before riots occurred (thanks to the ANCYL, who I am part of by the way!)

Anyway, I'm just a bit confused about your initial statement. Are the students being FINANCIALLY or ACADEMICALLY excluded? There is a difference you know - i don't want to be commenting on a whole bunch of lazy people who did more jolling than studying and ended up failing all their courses. In this case - out they go, no doubt about it. However, financial exclusion is WRONG! Nobody should be prevented from studying, if they have the reqd. matric pass, on the financial grounds. It's written in our constitution and is something you should know. Unfortunately, even though we're 10 years into our illustrious democracy, the past problems still crop up. Invariably blacks are the ones benefitting from the aid and hence, the ones to first suffer when it is cut. And living in a country with such a protestful history, do you think you're going to get a quite, dimplomatic, close-door, executive boardroom debate on this? Hell no - protest it is!

Not that I'm saying the protest is valid - especially when it is rascist. A similar racial event happened on Friday at my campus: SRC elections are on the go and the Hindu Students Association (HSA) were racially insulted by SASCO at the Q/A circus. So what do you do there? Obviously, GO TO THE PROCTOR! Again, our constitution says that no discrimination should occur hence DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT coz it is unacceptable! Also, do it because you can - we didn't fight apartheid to have another racial system!

Oh, SASCO definitely ain't communist!

Anyway - on the rascist thing. I still think that it still exists on campus especially. I know that my campus is so racially segregated. Indians hang out with indians, blacks with black, whites with whites, coloured with coloured - it's not mixed yet. Ja, you do get your pockets of mixed race groups but they don't dominate. Until full integration occurs - racism WILL continue. These racially closed sects mean that invariably, rascist jokes will be cracked. What does this do? Yes, compound racism. I'm terribly sorry that you had to bear the brunt of it in your lecture but it's a fact we need to deal with. Blacks ARE still racist and that's unfortunate. And as I said, there are other race groups who would have done the same ie. be racist!

On to your question: University - in this day an age and in my opinion - should not be free. Why? It would remove the ethic that you need to work to establish yourself and also mean that laziness will set in. I'm sure you've seen this on your campus - the rich kids, who can afford going to varsity forever (...Van Wilder :smile: ) fail subjects, change courses and do what they want - should the tax payers be burdened with the cost of these loafer? The fin. aid and bursary students on the other hand are the ones in the library on a friday night at 20h00 doing work and passing. Why? That's there only way out of the poverty they live in. Without it, they're doomed to the life of a car guard! Now that is why the protest was violent. You are being DENIED this "way out" because your varsity is getting greedy. As mentioned earlier, we didn't fight apartheid for that.

Okay - that may be a bit contradictory so let's just explain more. Until all South African's are living a non-tainted life, one where they live a life that they, through living in South Africa, have manufactured for themselves (be it one where they have PhD's and are working for a top company or one where they goofed around in school and now work as a sweeper in the local corner shop) should equality as such, with free tertiary education being an example, be dished out willingly.

If you're still unclear - I'll gladly (try to) explain this further. Continuing - first world countries can give there citizens free education because they aren't still nursing past wounds. South Africa is like a wonderfully, beautiful flower. It is splendidly attractive now but is still in its juvenile stage. It still needs to be nursed till it reaches maturity where its true beauty will show.

Hope things go well there and that they sort themselves out - education should never be jeopardised.
 
  • #25
Shahil said:
On to your question: University - in this day an age and in my opinion - should not be free. Why? It would remove the ethic that you need to work to establish yourself and also mean that laziness will set in. I'm sure you've seen this on your campus - the rich kids, who can afford going to varsity forever (...Van Wilder :smile: ) fail subjects, change courses and do what they want - should the tax payers be burdened with the cost of these loafer? The fin. aid and bursary students on the other hand are the ones in the library on a friday night at 20h00 doing work and passing. Why? That's there only way out of the poverty they live in.


Finally we agree on something ;)
 
  • #26
When all education is a right then people will not realize how important it is to them until they lose it. Consider high school, where students who lollygag around end up failing classes until they drop out. Their next twenty years are ruined until they get back on track.
 
  • #27
I wonder why you focus on the negative, motai. Most people are not drop-outs. Surely, society in the USA is more pleasant and generally more educated in science, math, and language than before we had free public education.
 

1. Is education a fundamental human right or a privilege?

There is no clear answer to this question as it is a complex issue with many different perspectives. Some argue that education is a basic human right that should be accessible to all individuals, while others believe it is a privilege that must be earned or paid for. Ultimately, it depends on the societal and cultural context in which the question is being asked.

2. What is the difference between a right and a privilege?

A right is something that is inherently owed to an individual, regardless of their social or economic status. It is often seen as a moral or legal entitlement. On the other hand, a privilege is something that is granted or earned, and may not be accessible to everyone. It is often linked to societal status, wealth, or other factors.

3. How does education impact a person's life?

Education has a significant impact on an individual's life in many ways. It can lead to better job opportunities, higher income, improved health, and increased social mobility. Education also helps individuals develop critical thinking skills, cultural awareness, and a sense of civic responsibility.

4. Should education be free for everyone?

Again, this is a contentious and complex issue. Some argue that education should be free for everyone to ensure equal opportunities and promote social justice. Others argue that this would not be sustainable and could lead to a decline in the quality of education. Ultimately, the decision to make education free would depend on the values and priorities of a society.

5. How can we ensure equal access to education for all individuals?

There are various ways to promote equal access to education, such as implementing policies that provide free or subsidized education, investing in public schools and universities, and addressing systemic barriers to education such as poverty and discrimination. It also requires a collective effort from governments, communities, and individuals to prioritize education as a fundamental right for all individuals.

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