Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

News ELF strikes again

  1. Sep 4, 2009 #1


    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    These guys tick me off to no end!

    The Earth Liberation Front knocked down two radio towers used by a local AM radio station. Oh, and why a radio tower? Well, on their http://www.elfpressoffice.org/" [Broken]...

    Great. Just great. Terrorists driven by junk science.

    A few years ago, they torched four houses, each worth over a million dollars (ironically, these homes were open to the public for tours because they used new "green" building methods).

    A few years before that they torched the beautiful Horticulture building on the campus of the University of Washington (my alma matter). Years and years of research...gone, due to these yahoos.

    I hope the FBI gets these idiots :mad:.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 4, 2009 #2
    How did they topple the radio towers? That would take a very organized effort.
  4. Sep 4, 2009 #3


    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    They used what looked like excavators, judging from the http://www.komonews.com/news/local/57260622.html" [Broken].
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  5. Sep 4, 2009 #4

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    I often wonder if people like this are actually motivated by that which they claim, or if they would use any convenient excuse.

    Thank goodness they only go after AM radio. :biggrin:
  6. Sep 4, 2009 #5
    First, I think they should offer a much larger reward.

    As for the act of destruction, it would have taken a lot of time to steal the (very expensive) excavator. Logistically, they would need to drive it to the site (very slow and noisy), take down the first tower (very noisy also), then reposition for the second tower and take it down, and finally make their escape.

    When they finally are caught (and they will be if they're this brazen) very long sentences (for the group under RICO) and significant damages are in order.
  7. Sep 4, 2009 #6


    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor


    Oh, did I mention that they are MORONS?


    Did I mention that they were IDIOTS?
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  8. Sep 5, 2009 #7
    Is this ELF an organised group?
    That's pretty scary that they are willing to go to that length.
  9. Sep 5, 2009 #8
    The behaviour of such a group may look quite foreign but it confirms merely the study results of http://www.abacon.com/commstudies/groups/groupthink.html [Broken]. Irving Janis did a lot of work but his analysis may be a bit too restrictive. It appears that groupthink is everywhere, according to Robert Baron, [URL [Broken] group
    decision-making is ubiquitous[/url].

    Maybe the phenomenon is indeed much bigger, if we consider the tension between rationality and deeply rooted widespread beliefs in general.

    The wiki about groupthink is very elaborate.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  10. Sep 5, 2009 #9
    The Wiki post makes me wonder if they won't graduate from wrecking radio towers to blowing up populated facilities? They are not peaceful activists, they are domestic terrorists, and should be prosecuted as a group.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  11. Sep 5, 2009 #10


    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper

    Presumably not very - if they don't even believe in AM radio they aren't going to have email or cellphones.
    There is only so much organising you can do if your only signalling mechanism is ringing church bells (once if police are coming by land, 2 if by helicopter?)
  12. Sep 5, 2009 #11
    That's the scary part of the groupthink phenomenon. One can clearly see how things escalate from Janis eight symptoms indicative of groupthink:

    Note that item's 6 and 7 are also the base of the Abilene paradox
    Projecting these indications on other social interactions and politics one might see that groupthink is indeed ubiquitous.
  13. Sep 5, 2009 #12

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    How do you know that this all applies to this particular group? Maybe they are all taking drugs and someone thinks God told them to do it. "Groupthink outlines a number of specifics, but we know almost nothing about these people.

    For example: Not expressing one's true feelings. How would we know that about any of them?
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  14. Sep 5, 2009 #13
    It was a damn sports radio station. Wierd. You would think they would go after conservative talk show stations.
  15. Sep 5, 2009 #14
    Now hold on a minute, let's be consistent.

    Whatever happened to the concept of every stupid act perpetrated by zealots is motivatedby talk radio? :confused:

    By the way, I didn't say "conservative" because it's understood there's really only one type of talk radio - conservative - as nobody cares to listen to liberal whining.:rolleyes:
  16. Sep 5, 2009 #15
    Like I said, it's wierd. Maybe there are ELF conservatives trying to knock off AM radio competitors? LOL
  17. Sep 5, 2009 #16
    Don't forget, they could still be communicating with the old string and cans:biggrin:
  18. Sep 5, 2009 #17


    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    I'll second that motion.

    Our local ELF, http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2008/08/12/tre-arrow-speaks-true-to-a-higher-power/" [Broken], just got sent to prison.

    I can still picture him perched on the ledge of the forestry building with his little plastic milk jug poop container dangling from a rope.

    http://www.theglobalreport.org/issues/78/Trey%20Arrow.JPG [Broken]

    regarding one of his proteges:

    Just the kind of guy you want to sit next to in class. :grumpy:
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  19. Sep 6, 2009 #18
    well, observing the website of the group as given by the OP:

    This seem to hint to at least some of the symptoms of groupthink as given by Janis (see boldfaces in my second post), that would it make worthwile to inverstigate if the other symtoms are also present.

    It would be interesting to see how drugs could stimulate groups to do excessive things as a group. Also would any of the individuals have done something like that, without hypothetical drugs or without the mutual admiration, support and reassurance of the group? Like 'we-re-all-in-this-together-for-a-better-world.

    So what else would best describe sociologically, all the supernatural cults with alleged messages of their deity's and demons?
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  20. Sep 6, 2009 #19
    lol. I think the real problem with "left-wing" talk radio was that their message was the same one people were exposed to anyway, from watching TV or reading the paper.

    "Right wing" talk radio became popular because it provided a point of view not heard in "mainstream" media.

    So both sides had reason to listen to "right wing" radio, but no reason to listen to "left wing" radio. That's a double whammy.
Share this great discussion with others via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook