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Energy from the Vacuum? Real or BS?

  1. Oct 29, 2004 #1
    I listen to late night talk show "Coast to Coast am" ;mostly to Art Bell
    and have a few books on physics,(One by Dr. kaku)and there are some
    who speak about how it's possible to build power units that produce
    more power than you put into it and others that simply get the power
    to run electrical appliances, tv sets, ect. from the air . "The Search for
    Zero Point Energy"; a book , tells of the quest to find such devices. One
    man claims there have been devices already built that do this in a small
    way but before the units can be manufactured for sale, the inventors are
    either bought off by the big OIL companies or the inventors are killed.

    Some claim the "Free Energy Devices" will never be allowed until there are
    no oil deposits left on Planet Earth and the Oil Companies need another
    form of energy to power their new electric cars, Hydrogen powered cars,
    or their new fuel cell cars.

    What do you think? Is the hope for a clean Energy source that gets its
    power from thin air a real possiblity or are the laws of Physics telling us
    that all of this is a pipe dream? :approve:
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2004
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 29, 2004 #2

    Chronos

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    Bet on the laws of physics. ZPE represents the lowest possible energy state of the vacuum. Since the only way to extract energy from a system is to send it to a lower energy state, it suggests there may be a problem with this idea.
     
  4. Oct 30, 2004 #3

    russ_watters

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    These are a common, old hoax with a new face.
     
  5. Oct 30, 2004 #4
    Another assumption you make.
    I am sure that in the near future you will see on CNN other information. We are building the prototypes of the Gravitational Power Plant. Free, everywhere, no input (except the structure), only output. Conform natural laws. No magic.
    You suggested mechanical engineers (btw, thanks), ... they are involved. :shy:
     
  6. Oct 31, 2004 #5

    russ_watters

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    Assumption? No, I've had some experience with these specific hoaxes and the more general category they represent - that's how I know its both common and old. :rofl:
    Those two statements directly contradict each other.
     
  7. Oct 31, 2004 #6

    Chronos

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    With all that free energy just waiting to be sucked from the void, I have a design for the ultimate weapon. Build a really big storage device and just keeping charging it with your favorite free energy machine. Eventually it will cataclysmically discharge or explode. Come to think of it, this probably explains how stars go supernova.
     
  8. Nov 1, 2004 #7
    The ZPE guys remind me of when I was 12 years old, and thought that putting a generator on the front wheel of a bicycle and a motor on the rear wheel would allow me to travel, if not forever, but further than without them. It's fun in a childish way to think about this stuff, but then you find out why nobody has done it before by studying some basic physics. Or you don't, and you post lots of BS on the internet, and show everyone you stopped learning at 12.
     
  9. Nov 2, 2004 #8
    It is not. How can you say something like that if actual natural laws don't know what dark matter and dark energy is?
    You don't know the design, so you don't know what you are talking about. But you know in advance that it is a hoax. That's what I call an assumption.

    It reminds me of that professor proving mathematically in 1957 that satellites never could be launched in orbit. One year later you had the Spoetnik in orbit. That professor used the scientific method.

    I will stop here, I spent to much time on PF. You can keep on your hoax idea, I will continu to make the design and concept in a working industrial reality.
     
  10. Nov 3, 2004 #9

    Alkatran

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    Because you use energy to go up and gain energy to go down. If you could gain energy wheels would spin forever because the parts going down would gain more energy than the parts going up, or vice versa.

    And obviously if it was wrong once...
    Don't argue by analogy
     
  11. Nov 3, 2004 #10
    If ZPE does every become possible it won't be anytime soon and would involve physics beyond anything we know today, so don't worry about it.
     
  12. Nov 4, 2004 #11
    I would go further and say it's not at all possible. I would also recommend that you save your money and don't buy these books by these people or invest any money unless it's some strange way of entertaining yourself. They will make all these promises yet never deliver. Ever. Money invested with free energy/ZPE people will disappear into the vacuum (joke).
     
  13. Nov 4, 2004 #12
    Loooked into this a long time, at the end of the day might be possible but to be honest the physics? are WAY beyond me . I Would say forget this stuff 99% is a scam anyway. Try to think of your own stuff, this is worse than useless. Waste of time and time can be worth much alot.
     
  14. Nov 19, 2004 #13

    brewnog

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    You mean to say you *don't* like reading about PMMs? I love it! The more contrived and ridiculous they are the better, especially if they are followed by the story of what happened to the crackpot inventor after he was laughed all the way out of the patent office....
     
  15. Nov 20, 2004 #14
    Hi,

    Saying it is impossible is as dogmatic as saying it is a certainty. Personally, I believe it is possible. This doesn't make it so, but I won't be surprised or overwhelmed if it occurs.

    Many times in my life I have been certain and many times I was wrong. It still happens. Certainty comes only with reality and the future is unknown.

    juju
     
  16. Nov 20, 2004 #15

    russ_watters

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    That depends on what you base the assertion. Many people claim its possible because "anything is possible." That's unscientific and wrong and not a reasonable basis for the assertion. Many people who claim it is impossible claim it because it violates the laws of physics. That's a reasonable basis for the assertion. So....
    First, what exactly do you mean by "possible" and second, on what do you base that assertion?

    My position is that it is impossble, by which I really mean extrordinarily unlikely. For it to be possible, most of what we know about physics needs to be wrong.
     
  17. Nov 20, 2004 #16

    Chronos

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    Assuming GR is correct and the universe is flat, as determined by WMAP and other studies, the actual vacuum energy density is limited to about 8E-27 kg/m^3. Assuming you could actually extract that energy, you are going to need a mighty big generator to get 1 joule of output.
     
  18. Nov 21, 2004 #17
    By possible I mean that there exist certain experiments and theories (not of the mainstream of course) that point toward the existence of an energy that can be extracted apparently from the vacuum.

    It might be that that what we know of physics is not all there is to know about physics.

    Whose work might point in these directions. Here's a few names. Tesla, Sarfatti, Puthoff, Haish, Rueda, Evans, Sachs, Bearden, and Bedini to name a few.

    juju
     
  19. Nov 21, 2004 #18

    selfAdjoint

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    A much misrepresented pioneer and four cranks. Tesla never said anything about the zero point energy. Sarfatti talks but doesn't calculate, and his main use is to put down Puthoff. Haish and Rueda depend on Puthoff,...
     
  20. Nov 21, 2004 #19
    Hi,

    Tesla called his form of energy radiant energy. Whether it was standard vacuum energy or not is unknown at present.

    Calling four of the others cranks is really a misnomer. They may be wrong, but they have some serious ideas that should be considered.

    juju
     
  21. Nov 21, 2004 #20
    "Coast to Coast" is not a reliable source of information. I listened to the show a few times and most of it was "the chupacabra was sighted in northwest canada because some cows were found slaughtered" or something else ridiculous.
     
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