Energy storage solutions?

[MXM13]

Any ideas about how to get normal size rechargeable batteries that would last longer than 1 year (at least 3-4 years of 24h use) 5 to 15 volts
I thought of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_battery but can they be that small and recharged fast enough ( at least a little faster than they discharge)
There's also fly wheel but I can't imagine it in C,d or AA size

 

[Bystander]

C,d or AA size

(at least 3-4 years of 24h use)

Spend enormous sums of money. Can you elaborate a bit on your requirements?

 

[MXM13]

I need a rechargeable battery of a normal battery size that can be charged faster than it discharges and that could last 3 years at least (in a condition of 24h use (charged discharged))
I'm working on a device with a built in source of power, the device needs this source of power to work and the source of power needs the device to work but the source of power starts after the device after a delay of few seconds so my solution is to add 2 batteries. That's why I need 2 rechargeable longlasting batteries one will feed the device and the other will be charged by the source of energy. The problem is that they need to charge faster than they discharge and be long-lasting.

 

[Bystander]

normal battery size

And you want something like AAA, AA, C, or D? Can't use small lead-acid batteries? Or modify something from a cordless screwdriver? Some of those are about the size of a roll of lifesavers.

@Bandersnatch @phinds

 

[MXM13]

Thank you for your replies, I really appreciate your help
I couldn't find any battery that would respect all of my 3 conditions
1 Small size
2 Charging faster than discharging
3 Lasting for at least 3 years (knowing that it will be used 24/24h)
I would be very thankful if you could give me some links to the solutions that you propose, I'm in Poland so I need to see where I could find it's equivalent.
It doesn't even have to be a battery, just something that would help me with my delay problem

 

[Doug Huffman]

See BatteryUniversity.com I don't see your capacity requirements. The lifespan limits of LiPo and Pb-acid are similar, roughly 3 - 5 years and 300 - 500 equivalent charge/discharge cycles.

 

[MXM13]

Thank you.

See BatteryUniversity.com I don't see your capacity requirements. The lifespan limits of LiPo and Pb-acid are similar, roughly 3 - 5 years and 300 - 500 equivalent charge/discharge cycles.

Thank you for your reply, I greatly appreciate your help

 

[phinds]

Like Doug, I don't see your requirements. "charges faster than discharges" is utterly meaningless since you have given no idication of HOW LONG it takes to discharge. If it is only supplying a trivial amount of current, it could take many months to discharge. Normal charge time is several hours.

 

[MXM13]

Like Doug, I don't see your requirements. "charges faster than discharges" is utterly meaningless since you have given no idication of HOW LONG it takes to discharge. If it is only supplying a trivial amount of current, it could take many months to discharge. Normal charge time is several hours.

It must be continuous 5 to 15 volts (something in this order, the exact number doesn't really matter as I can adjust the device for that), longer it will take to discharge better

 

[phinds]

It must be continuous 5 to 15 volts (something in this order, the exact number doesn't really matter as I can adjust the device for that), longer it will take to discharge better

OK, I'll assume 5 to 15 volts and no current at all, so the discharge time will be the lifetime of the battery which is several years. If you actually want to use it to DO something, the current will be more than zero and the discharge time will go do accordingly, and you'll have to SAY what the current load is. THAT is the "requirement" that I was obviously looking for. The voltage is pretty much irrelevant.

 

[DrClaude]

In other words, how many ampere-hour do you need?

 

[MXM13]

20 amp-hour probably less
I can make it work even at 5amps but 20 would be perfect

 

[Bystander]

120 amp-hours probably more

In WHAT size package? That's not a storage battery --- that's a bomb.

 

[MXM13]

In WHAT size package? That's not a storage battery --- that's a bomb.

sorry typo read again

 

[Bystander]

From mortar round to hand grenade. You can't do with an amp-hr? That's about the capacity you can get in C and D cell size packages.

 

[MXM13]

1amp-hr ? as I said I can adjust the device, now it needs 5-20 but I can replace some parts of it, if I really need to
but I need to know exactly what kind of battery I will use to find the appropriate parts, for now I'm just testing and prospecting

 

[berkeman]

1amp-hr ? as I said I can adjust the device, now it needs 5-20 but I can replace some parts of it, if I really need to
but I need to know exactly what kind of battery I will use to find the appropriate parts, for now I'm just testing and prospecting

A 20 A-hr battery discharging over 1 year gives you about 2mA continuous. Is that enough for your low-power device to work on?

 

[phinds]

1amp-hr ? as I said I can adjust the device, now it needs 5-20 but I can replace some parts of it, if I really need to
but I need to know exactly what kind of battery I will use to find the appropriate parts, for now I'm just testing and prospecting

I worry that if you don't even understand what the right questions are, enough to just get on Google and find the answers, that you are getting into something that is over your head and you need to study some basic electronics before moving forward.

 

[MXM13]

I worry that if you don't even understand what the right questions are, enough to just get on Google and find the answers, that you are getting into something that is over your head and you need to study some basic electronics before moving forward.

Wow, what's going on with people? all of a sudden they start aggressing you for no reason.
try to think for 1 sec, if googling was enough and it was so easy to find, would I ask you?

 

[MXM13]

A 20 A-hr battery discharging over 1 year gives you about 2mA continuous. Is that enough for your low-power device to work on?

As I said, "for now I'm just testing" I will replace the current parts once I'll "know exactly what kind of battery I will use to find the appropriate parts, "

 

[Borek]

It is not that we started to be aggressive, it is that your questions don't make much sense. You seem to be mixing volts and ampere hours at will, as if it didn't matter which is which, then you say you need 20 Ah which is comparable to a small acid battery (standard factory battery in Fiat 126p was 32 Ah), but you want it in an AAA sized package. It just doesn't add, which makes us wonder if you really know what you are talking about.

What is the current your device needs?

 

[phinds]

Wow, what's going on with people? all of a sudden they start aggressing you for no reason.
try to think for 1 sec, if googling was enough and it was so easy to find, would I ask you?

Well, you are the one who clearly didn't understand the rather obvious request for a current requirement and the fact that it IS the thing one needs to know, so why are you puzzled that I think you don't know what the right questions are? If you don't know what the questions are, the of course Google won't help you. That my point.

 

[MXM13]

It is not that we started to be aggressive, it is that your questions don't make much sense. You seem to be mixing volts and ampere hours at will, as if it didn't matter which is which, then you say you need 20 Ah which is comparable to a small acid battery (standard factory battery in Fiat 126p was 32 Ah), but you want it in an AAA sized package. It just doesn't add, which makes us wonder if you really know what you are talking about.

What is the current your device needs?

Please try to listen to people, 1 I'm not responsible to for things that might "seem" to someone, 2 obviously now I use 0 batteries for my device and I do not intend keeping the same parts once I'll get the batteries, as I said in the very beginning I will adjust it to the battery, of course that I would prefer the values to be closer to what i have now, less things I would have to replace better it would be for me and of course i try to find something as close to it as possible, but I said from the very beginning that I would adjust the device but for this I would need to know exactly what kind of battery I will use. Volts and amps never really mattered since i can adjust the device, what mattered is the number of discharge/charge cycles in the condition of a constant use.

 

[phinds]

... I would need to know exactly what kind of battery I will use. Volts and amps never really mattered ...

See, that's the kind of statement that leads us to believe that you really don't understand what you are doing. Possibly this is all just a matter of your not taking the time to lay out what you really need but it doesn't seem that way. If you believe that volts and amps have no implications for what kind of battery you would use, then I stand by my original statement that you don't seem to understand what the questions are that you need to be asking.

 

[MXM13]

See, that's the kind of statement that leads us to believe that you really don't understand what you are doing. Possibly this is all just a matter of your not taking the time to lay out what you really need but it doesn't seem that way. If you believe that volts and amps have no implications for what kind of battery you would use, then I stand by my original statement that you don't seem to understand what the questions are that you need to be asking.

Are you serious? Please open your eyes and your mind and read what I've written - I never said that they do not matter in general, what I said is that in this situation where i can adjust my device to anything ranging from 5-15volts and 1-20amps it doesn't really matter whether it's 5 or 15volts, 1 or 20 amps what matters to me is the number of discharge/charge cycles in the condition of a constant use. Is it so difficult to understand? Values do not matter since i can adjust my device to any value. The fact that you do not understand what I'm asking doesn't mean that i do not know what i want

 

[phinds]

... Values do not matter since i can adjust my device to any value ...

Great. Based on that statement, then the answer is obvious. Just buy a 1.5V rechargeable battery and you are done.

 

[MXM13]

Great. Based on that statement, then the answer is obvious. Just buy a 1.5V rechargeable battery and you are done.

Any rechargeable battery won't do in the condition of constant use 24/24h, I need it to last for at least few years that's why I asked the question in the first place, and somehow people started being very negative instead of understanding what I was saying and being constructive

 

[Borek]

Actually if you can adjust your device to any value, you don't need a rechargeable battery, standard AAA battery will do. Or even a button cell.

 

[phinds]

Actually if you can adjust your device to any value, you don't need a rechargeable battery, standard AAA battery will do. Or even a button cell.

Excellent point.

 

[Bystander]

Have you tried throwing a good capacitor in rather than a battery?

 

[Doug Huffman]

A 1.5VDC battery with a low enough discharge rate will last for a few years, like the motherboard battery in your computer.

 

[Borek]

Any rechargeable battery won't do in the condition of constant use 24/24h, I need it to last for at least few years that's why I asked the question in the first place, and somehow people started being very negative instead of understanding what I was saying and being constructive

For how long battery can work depends on its capacity and the current you need to draw, do you understand that much? If you need 1 nA current, 1 Ah battery will last 32 years. As long as you don't tell us more details you are wasting your time and our time.

 

[MXM13]

Excellent point.

Go to the first page, read the description of what I'm doing and you'll understand why i need a rechargeable battery.
I do not need a source of energy, I need a solution to the delay problem and rechargeable batteries seemed to be a simple answer to it.

 

[Borek]

That's enough trolling.