What are some common misconceptions about engineering science at U of T?

[zynskiaeroeng]

Hello all. I am an engineering science student at the University of Toronto. I know many people
do not fully understand what the program is all about, what various academic, research, and work place oriented opportunities are available to students, or what engineering streams are offered through the program. If you have any questions about engineering science at U of T feel free to write a post.


Cheers

 

[Kevin_Axion]

How much sleep do you get a week?

 

[Mépris]

Did you do A-Levels or IB before going there? Or do you know people who did that? If yes to any of the previous questions, then; how did you find your introductory Physics/Maths/Chemistry courses?

 

[zynskiaeroeng]

How much sleep do you get a week?

lol That really depends on what week it is. On average I get about 6 or 7 hours of sleep per week. However I am not on residence and as such, I have to commute to school every morning which takes an hour. Sleep is not a huge problem for first year eng sci students. Second year is another story however.

 

[zynskiaeroeng]

Did you do A-Levels or IB before going there? Or do you know people who did that? If yes to any of the previous questions, then; how did you find your introductory Physics/Maths/Chemistry courses?

I did not take AP level courses in high school nor was I in the IB program. I simply attended regular Ontario high school. The program is designed for students who have taken high school at the highest level. I was definitely at a disadvantage in calculus during first semester. That being said I got through first semester with decent marks. Physics (Classical mechanics) will not be a problem for anyone who excelled at regular high school level physics. The problem spots in first semester engineering science are mainly calculus (for those who have not done AP BC calculus) and structures and materials (a course where students learn a full two years of civil engineering without a textbook). For reference at least 70% of the people I know in my year did take AP, IB or high level foreign equivalents. If you have not taken anything higher than regular high school courses you will be at a disadvantage during first year math and physics courses. That being said, you can do just fine without taking advanced high school courses. I got better marks than many people who had taken high level high school courses in first semester. If you are confident in your ability to think and learn at an accelerated pace then do not worry about not having taken AP. You can do just fine without it. I hope that helps answer your question.
Cheers

 

[Ryker]

On average I get about 6 or 7 hours of sleep per week.

That's intense

 

[General_Sax]

On average I get about 6 or 7 hours of sleep per week

!

 

[zynskiaeroeng]

That's intense

LMAO oh boy. I meant 6-7 hours per night. You would be dis functional with anything less than 5 hours of sleep per night. You will not get very far in eng sci without developing great sleep habits.

 

[nobelium102]

oh my , i have a lot of question to ask! i hope you are still there

1) Do you have good future prospect? even if you haven't really graduated eng sci as top students? (Job, good grad school)

2) Does it cost a lot? because it doesn't seem like it is giving out a lot of scholarship,,,my family aren't that rich and i really want to go to grad school. Will it cost a lot?

3)what was your entrance average?

4) what year are you in, what specialization are you thinking of?

*for costly wise, is it significantly different if you choose to not live in residence?, do you have a choice? ( i live in GTA area, probably 1hour on bus from home)

 

[Kevin_Axion]

Are you from Mississauga?

 

[nobelium102]

@kevin axion: no, i won't say where i live, (internet can be scary) but i did used to live in mississauga :)
I live in york region

 

[nobelium102]

another question

Can i do minor in physics while doing engineering physics?
is it possible in terms of schedule (not in terms of human ability lol)
I just wanted to know if there is a rule that goes against doing minor while doing eng sci

 

[Kevin_Axion]

Yea, you can.

I'm 17 years old and in grade 11, proof is shown on the member photo thread so there's nothing to be scared about; although the information is accessible to other people. I'm actually going to York University on Wednesday for a science competition.

By the way, I'm not sure if you've heard, EngSci is extraordinarily demanding. Most of the students drop out after the first year.

Here's my perspective of it:

EngSci has been labelled as the best degree to acquire in order to be more employable and to have better knowledge of the material, but this isn't really the case. In EngSci you'll learn the basic principles that you will ONLY need in a job after university. Courses like Quantum Mechanics, Complex Variables, Real Analysis, Differential Geometry, Topology, and General Relativity don't really lie tangent to engineering applicability. Many people enter EngSci thinking that they will have an advantage over others in their unique specializations and rigorous course load. On the contrary, those who enter a regular engineering program will be competing for the same jobs as the EngSci students and will almost certainly have a better GPA. I wouldn't see the specializations such as biomedical, aerospace engineering, nanoengineering, energy systems etc. as advantageous. What if you enter a biomedical stream and discover that you don't like it, you don't really have any other jobs to fall back on. Where as with a chemical engineering degree you can work in the biochemical/biomedical industry and go to petroleum engineering or the like as a
reserve.

To me, EngSci seems like a program that students enter that are having a dilemma between regular science program and engineering program. I feel that you should either choose one or the other.
That's just my two cents.

 

[MECHster]

I'm not sure if you're "allowed" to minor in physics but you'll probably notice that its really just unnecessary if your in EngSci. You'll take a lot of physics oriented classes in the engineering department (assuming it's similar to my school). And if you want to minor in physics you'll likely have to take those similar courses but in the physics department. IMO, it would be a waste of time for an engineering student let alone an EngSci student who has even less time.

As for entering averages, the "cut-off" is usually low 90s.

 

[jerryrigged]

@zynskiaeroeng, @MECHster, or anyone else: do you know what the prospects are for UofT EngSci students to get accepted into the best US grad school programs? Do EngSci students regularly get accepted to top 10/20/50 schools?

 

[nobelium102]

i heard a lot of the graduate goes to prestigious us grad school
Thats something, compared to other engineering program in Canada
They study very hard and earn something worth it

i am just worried that if i study physics (which is my original dream) i would have hard time paying back school, and i might end up in a different job then i originally dreamed

I want to go into research or academia related to quantum physics
and people tell me that you shouldn't get your hopes up by looking at stephen hawkings as he is doing it wrong lol...anyways
thats my problem

 

[nobelium102]

i heard a lot of the eng sci graduate goes to prestigious us grad school
Thats something, compared to other engineering program in Canada
They study very hard and earn something worth it

i am just worried that if i study physics (which is my original dream) i would have hard time paying back school, and i might end up in a different job then i originally dreamed

I want to go into research or academia related to quantum physics
and people tell me that you shouldn't get your hopes up by looking at stephen hawkings as he is doing it wrong lol...anyways
thats my problem

 

[zynskiaeroeng]

oh my , i have a lot of question to ask! i hope you are still there

1) Do you have good future prospect? even if you haven't really graduated eng sci as top students? (Job, good grad school)

2) Does it cost a lot? because it doesn't seem like it is giving out a lot of scholarship,,,my family aren't that rich and i really want to go to grad school. Will it cost a lot?

3)what was your entrance average?

4) what year are you in, what specialization are you thinking of?

*for costly wise, is it significantly different if you choose to not live in residence?, do you have a choice? ( i live in GTA area, probably 1hour on bus from home)

Alright. In order:

1) Engineering science students have astounding prospects indeed. Academically, you will find no other undergraduate program in Canada for which about 60% of students go on to graduate school, about 30% of which do graduate school at MIT, Standford, Caltech, Columbia... ect. If your GPA is not stellar (60s, and low 70s), so long as you graduate from engineering science you are nearly certain to be accepted for graduate school at U of T as well as other Canadian engineering schools. Engineering science works by a fairly straightforward principal: higher marks = more prestigious graduate school.

2) The highest entrance scholarship (not including ones that you can apply for is $2000)

3) My entrance average was 95%

4) I will be starting second year in September having just finished my first year. I have only ever considered the aerospace and physics options. I will almost certainly do aerospace engineering.

5) Although I am not on res, I have heard that living off res can be a couple thousand less than certain residences. Keep in mind, some of U of Ts residences are quite cheaper than others. If you are placed in the chestnut residence however (the most expensive one), it will not be hard to find a cheaper alternative. I live in North York Toronto (Bayview Village area). It takes me about 45 min. each way. Commute time definitely cut into my study time and for those that can avoid it I would strongly suggest residence. However, if you cannot it is not the end of the world.

Best of Luck with your University Choice!

 

[zynskiaeroeng]

i heard a lot of the eng sci graduate goes to prestigious us grad school
Thats something, compared to other engineering program in Canada
They study very hard and earn something worth it

i am just worried that if i study physics (which is my original dream) i would have hard time paying back school, and i might end up in a different job then i originally dreamed

I want to go into research or academia related to quantum physics
and people tell me that you shouldn't get your hopes up by looking at stephen hawkings as he is doing it wrong lol...anyways
thats my problem

I see. It is no joke that an engineering science education at U of T is a far more prestigious and rigorous degree than physics at any Canadian University. I will put things into perspective for you. In your first two years of engineering science, you will do many academic courses (rather than applied) in the areas of mechanics, quantum and nuclear physics, calculus, and linear algebra. These courses will be quite more academic and at a far higher level than the U of T physics students will study. That being said you will take a multitude of engineering courses. CIV102 (A course where you will learn about 2 years worth of civil engineering; bridge design, structures, materials... ect), ECE159 (a course where you learn about 1 year and a half worth of electrical engineering) AER205 (a course in advanced fluid mechanics and vector calculus), AER201(A course where you spend many nights not sleeping at all building an autonomous robot), and then there are the engineering communication courses ESC101, and ESC102 which are all about understanding engineering roles and writing engineering papers about designs and problems you will have to formulate.

To make a long story short, as an engineering science student you will have a much more prestigous degree, the highest level of education in science Canada has to offer, and a shoe into prestigious grad schools. However, as I mentioned above, you will be trained as an engineer and as such the most demanding courses in your first and second years in engineering science will be your engineering courses (you will spend significantly more time on engineering courses as they will present you with more projects and assignments then courses such as calculus and physics type courses. If you would enjoy being an engineer and a physicist then I would recommend engineering science. If engineering science is simply a way of getting a better physics degree... you will fail. You cannot get through the first two years of engineering science at U of T unless you like it. Otherwise the workload will get to you and you will willingly switch out to a core 8 engineering discipline such as electrical engineering, or you will literally fail and be forced to switch into a core 8 discipline.

Good Luck with your University Choice!

 

[zynskiaeroeng]

another question

Can i do minor in physics while doing engineering physics?
is it possible in terms of schedule (not in terms of human ability lol)
I just wanted to know if there is a rule that goes against doing minor while doing eng sci

You cannot. I am an engineering science student and no for a fact that you cannot. However this means absolutely nothing. As all physics courses in engineering science are taught by the department of physics at U of T. Thus as an engineering physics student, you are indeed to doing a degree in physics at a more rigorous level then the actual physics students. Do not be fooled by the term "engineering physics". At U of T that simply means a more hardcore physics degree than physics itself, with the most intense two foundation years of engineering education in Canada. Why would you need a minor in physics when you are doing a degree in physics?

 

[Ryker]

nobelium102, I don't know how much zynskiaeroeng got paid for those posts, but I would take his advice with a bucketload of salt. When a first year student makes claims, such as "as an engineering physics student, you are indeed to doing a degree in physics at a more rigorous level then the actual physics students" and "an engineering science education at U of T is a far more prestigious and rigorous degree than physics at any Canadian University", the only thing you can infer about the program is that there is a lot of brainwashing going on. I don't know the program, so I can't make any claims, but as an outside observer I'd advise against putting too much weight on his posts. I might be wrong, though, and the program really is the best thing since sliced bread, as claimed.

 

[nobelium102]

Thanks for your time replying all my questions
It certainly helped me understand the program better

Do you know if UT has facility to research on nuclear engineering or particle physics?

 

[Kevin_Axion]

Eng Sci seems like a waste of time and is only useful if you wish to pursue graduate school after your undergrad in which case you should just get a BSc. I stated my case before, you'll be competing for the same jobs as regular engineering students and will likely have less experience and a lower GPA thus making you a less probable candidate, corporations don't even know what Eng Sci is so the prestige factor is negligible.

 

[Jokerhelper]

@Ryker: You should frequent Canadian student boards more often. You wouldn't believe the things people say about this program.

However this means absolutely nothing. As all physics courses in engineering science are taught by the department of physics at U of T. Thus as an engineering physics student, you are indeed to doing a degree in physics at a more rigorous level then the actual physics students. Do not be fooled by the term "engineering physics". At U of T that simply means a more hardcore physics degree than physics itself, with the most intense two foundation years of engineering education in Canada. Why would you need a minor in physics when you are doing a degree in physics?

:rofl:

By any chance, at other universities are the physics courses taught by the Mickey Mouse department? Is that where the physics students at UofT take their less rigorous physics courses?

Oh yea, LOL at a 2.0 gpa getting you to any serious grad school, let alone UofT. Nice try.

 

[nobelium102]

@Ryker: You should frequent Canadian student boards more often. You wouldn't believe the things people say about this program. :rofl:

By any chance, at other universities are the physics courses taught by the Mickey Mouse department? Is that where the physics students at UofT take their less rigorous physics courses?

Oh yea, LOL at a 2.0 gpa getting you to any serious grad school, let alone UofT. Nice try.

i kind of don't get what you are trying to say

are you saying that ryker is right and i shouldn' t do eng sci?
hahaha i don't know if i will egt in but i was at least thinking about taking physics in u t
cuz i heard they have research and stuff, i will learn a lot in that school

so... what is your opinion on uoft?

 

[Ryker]

are you saying that ryker is right and i shouldn' t do eng sci?

Where did I say that, by the way?

 

[Kevin_Axion]

I don't know if you understand the reality of being a physicist but like most people that come on this forum wanting to become physicists they have a romanticized perception of what being a physicist is like. Firstly you'll have your standard university schooling. After that, with a BSc. in Physics, you'll be almost unemployable (the only possible jobs you'll get are graduate programs, financial analysts and systems engineers (not likely)). It will be almost necessary for you to go on into graduate studies, studying something that will likely be useless to society unless you are studying condensed matter physics. In that case, once you finish your PhD, you'll be approximately 26 years old, unemployed and concentrated so narrowly that people won't want to hire you do to a lack of industrial experience. Your 28 now, hanging on to post-docs hoping to become and assistant professor and to eventually get tenure, you now wish that you realized that you'll likely only get tenure if you make significant contributions during your post-docs or by the time your 35 years old. This is a route taken by many physicists, I'm not trying to be harsh but many people don't understand the facts, they just think: "I'll study physics because I enjoy it and I want to learn more about the universe around us." The knowledge in physics is always available and you can gain it later with a few hundred dollars in charges from your local library, which you can now afford since you've gone a different route. I'd suggest that you stay with the engineering path (although Eng Sci is very overwhelming and not worth the outcome (lower GPA, competing for some jobs as regular engineering students with higher GPAs)), physics is always there to unlock during your life, a university degree is a marketable characteristic and an engineering degree is far more accessible and employable.

Good luck!

 

[nobelium102]

Where did I say that, by the way?

i dunno, i don't understand what that guy was saying...lolol

 

[nobelium102]

I don't know if you understand the reality of being a physicist but like most people that come on this forum wanting to become physicists they have a romanticized perception of what being a physicist is like. Firstly you'll have your standard university schooling. After that, with a BSc. in Physics, you'll be almost unemployable (the only possible jobs you'll get are graduate programs, financial analysts and systems engineers (not likely)). It will be almost necessary for you to go on into graduate studies, studying something that will likely be useless to society unless you are studying condensed matter physics. In that case, once you finish your PhD, you'll be approximately 26 years old, unemployed and concentrated so narrowly that people won't want to hire you do to a lack of industrial experience. Your 28 now, hanging on to post-docs hoping to become and assistant professor and to eventually get tenure, you now wish that you realized that you'll likely only get tenure if you make significant contributions during your post-docs or by the time your 35 years old. This is a route taken by many physicists, I'm not trying to be harsh but many people don't understand the facts, they just think: "I'll study physics because I enjoy it and I want to learn more about the universe around us." The knowledge in physics is always available and you can gain it later with a few hundred dollars in charges from your local library, which you can now afford since you've gone a different route. I'd suggest that you stay with the engineering path (although Eng Sci is very overwhelming and not worth the outcome (lower GPA, competing for some jobs as regular engineering students with higher GPAs)), physics is always there to unlock during your life, a university degree is a marketable characteristic and an engineering degree is far more accessible and employable.

Good luck!

yes i kind of am romanticizing physics
in fact, i am really jealous of those smart people studying things that i don't even know
I am jealous of those people who uses complicated equations and symbols to solve mysteries of our world

However, i absolutely hate the process of getting employed, working for someone else's company that will never be mine
my father did small business of his own, he was really stressed with it, whether he was earning enough money to send me out to Canada and get me a Canadian citizenship
(which is a big accomplishment from a poor family he is from)
nonetheless, he is retiring from his job in an early age, he always says that he doesn't enjoy what he is doing.

It might be just me, but i have a negative thoughts on business
and technically, engineers are business people.
I can't imagine myself doing a job interview making presentation on what our companies future aspect would be like
i just hate it i don't exactly know why
even if i get employed at a very well known company, i would rather choose a job where i get to do my own research, write my theories or teach students.

though like you said i might be romanticizing all this

What i want to do in my life is study, have a pet doggy, enjoy musical life (as i love singing in choir and playing violin, piano, french horn, I am learning bass guitar and drum from my friend ..off topic lol) and have a great life with friends and family
and i don't need a lot of money ,,,unless i have a kid ,,, which i am not considering as a factor now,,,cuz i don't think i will get married,,, off topic again
lololololol and its not like i shop every month, or would like a nice car
though nice house wouldn't be bad...:) what am i gibbering about lol

yeah thanks for listening to my whiny story

 

[ThreeOfClubs]

I am actually very interested about this program. But I see that Mechanical Engineering isn't listed as an option to major in the last two years. Is Mechanical engineering disguised as a major option under a different name. Or does one end up learning mechanical engineering in the first two years ? Or if I'm interested in MechE is it better to just do the regular program.

 

[MECHster]

I am actually very interested about this program. But I see that Mechanical Engineering isn't listed as an option to major in the last two years. Is Mechanical engineering disguised as a major option under a different name. Or does one end up learning mechanical engineering in the first two years ? Or if I'm interested in MechE is it better to just do the regular program.

I believe it has an Aerospace engineering option. An aero major will take very similar courses as an undergrad to a mech. However, I'm not sure how close the engineering science with an option in aerospace is to a straight up mech program (in terms of actual courses in the programs). You should compare the two programs (mech vs engsci aerospace) to see how closely related they are. If you want to do research in mech/aerospace, the engsci option will probably be better, if you just want a job after graduation, straight mech would probably be better. Again, I have not looked at the actual courses a mech major takes versus an engsci aerospace major, specifically at UofT.

 

[General_Sax]

You should also consider that employers may not understand that MechE degree may be equivalent to an Aerospace EngSci degree -- not that they are equivalent... they may or may not be.

So, it could possibly make it more difficult to get a MechE job.

 

[zif.]

Eng Sci seems like a waste of time and is only useful if you wish to pursue graduate school after your undergrad in which case you should just get a BSc.

I almost went with an Eng Phys degree because (and what a concept!) I wanted to learn about engineering as well as physics.

And I'm sorry to do this... But you're doing an awful lot of talking about what something is worth in industry, but your profile says you're a high school student.

 

[Kevin_Axion]

I almost went with an Eng Phys degree because (and what a concept!) I wanted to learn about engineering as well as physics.

And I'm sorry to do this... But you're doing an awful lot of talking about what something is worth in industry, but your profile says you're a high school student.

You're absolutely correct I am a high school student. In fact I'm not sure what relevance it has to the discussion other then the lack of experience I may have. That is irrelevant anyways since most of my opinions are based off other's opinions who have gone into EngSci and who have gone into the regular engineering path at U of T.

I wasn't in anyway trying to degrade the value of an EngSci degree in industry but merely asking the question or rather suggesting the common opinion that not many employers know the difference between an EngSci degree and a regular engineering degree. Following from this premise wouldn't you think it would be logical to go into the regular engineering path and get a higher GPA since employers view EngSci and regular engineering on the same grounds. Also regular engineering is more general which is more desirable for employers i.e mechanical engineering, ECE, Electrical Engineering and Chemical Engineering. In that since it would be a waste of time to go into EngSci if you just wish to go into industry and compete for the same jobs as regular engineers whom are more desirable for said reasons.

 

[Spades]

Would one end up with less skill (for industry) in the major of their choice in EngSci as opposed to going The regular program?