Entropy and the Second Law of Thermodynamics in Isolated Systems

In summary, the conversation discusses the two equations for entropy of an ideal gas in an isolated system, one of which only applies to a reversible path. The correct equation involves evaluating the integral for a reversible path. The article mentioned provides a recipe for determining entropy and also provides a note on determining entropy for reversible processes. Free expansion is not reversible.
  • #1
Joe Cool
17
3
Hello,

In my textbook I read this example:
A gas in an isolated system expands after pulling out a separating plate, so its volume increases and there is no work or heat exchange.

the entropy of if the ideal gas is
$$\Delta S = n R \ln \frac {V_1} {V_2}$$

and the second law of thermodynamics is
$$\Delta S = \int \frac {\delta Q} T = 0$$

But I didn't understand which of the two formula is the true one?
 
Science news on Phys.org
  • #2
The second equation only applies if you evaluate the change in entropy between the initial and final equilibrium states along a reversible path between these two states. So to get the entropy change between the initial and final states (resulting from an irreversible path between the same two states), you need to devise a reversible path, and then evaluate the integral for that path. What did you think the subscript "rev" meant in the correct equation: $$\Delta S=\int{\frac{dQ_{rev}}{T}}$$

For a cookbook recipe on how to do this, see my recent Physics Forums Insights article: https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/grandpa-chets-entropy-recipe/
 
  • Like
Likes Joe Cool
  • #3
And I'll weigh in with a note I wrote some time ago on determining entropy (because entropy can be enormously confusing). Your equations appear in sections 5 and 4, respectively. Note that section 4 is restricted to reversible processes. Free expansion isn't reversible.
 
  • Like
Likes Joe Cool
  • #4
Thanks a lot, especially for your articles:smile:!
 

1. What is entropy in an isolated system?

Entropy in an isolated system refers to the measure of the disorder or randomness in the system. It is a thermodynamic property that increases over time, leading to the gradual decrease in the system's potential energy.

2. How does entropy change in an isolated system?

In an isolated system, entropy can either remain constant or increase. This means that the amount of disorder or randomness within the system either stays the same or increases over time. It is a natural process that is governed by the second law of thermodynamics.

3. Can entropy be reversed in an isolated system?

No, entropy cannot be reversed in an isolated system. The second law of thermodynamics states that entropy always increases in an isolated system. This means that the amount of disorder or randomness cannot decrease without an external force or energy.

4. How does entropy relate to energy in an isolated system?

In an isolated system, as entropy increases, the potential energy of the system decreases. This is because the energy is no longer concentrated in a usable form, but rather spread out and less available to do work.

5. What is the significance of entropy in an isolated system?

Entropy is an important concept in understanding the behavior of isolated systems. It helps explain why certain processes occur spontaneously, and why energy is not 100% efficient in doing work. It also plays a crucial role in various fields such as thermodynamics, chemistry, and biology.

Similar threads

Replies
11
Views
292
Replies
2
Views
837
  • Thermodynamics
Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
56
Views
3K
Replies
13
Views
1K
Replies
12
Views
1K
Replies
22
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
988
Replies
9
Views
1K
Back
Top