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Erwin Schrödinger Ghost Particles & Energy of Molecules & Atoms?

  1. Aug 13, 2014 #1
    Hello there. I did research on some of Schrodinger work. My question is the transfer of Energy between the Atoms and Molecule. Schrodinger made an analogy with the Cat/Atom Scenario but the real particle in question is the NH2 Mole & H-Atoms with ghost energy being observed. The reason I read was in the body there is Triangle shape Molecule called the NH2. The atom was an analogy to the actual behavior of the triangular NH2 Molecule. If the electrical forces that the molecule are too repulsive or too attractive, the molecule shakes apart and sometimes flies away. Then someone used the term the Quantum Magic Glue comes to the rescue and keeps all the molecules families of atoms together. However the price is high: the family members must give up their individual selves. They must live in the Quantum Wave Function that has two or more places at the same time. The Moment any of the atoms that make the molecule become located in one spot, the molecule begins to shake and dance. It radiates away excess energy in its attempt to stabilize itself. The Little NH2 Milecule is no exception to the rule.

    In other words, the H-Atoms do not exist separately whenever they are part of a molecule. All we have are their remnants, their Wave Function ghosts to remind us that they are potentially present. Their actually presence comes into being only we observed and at that instant the molecule shakes.

    """My question is When Atoms form the NH2 molecule is the H-Atoms present? If the Atoms combines to form the NH2 Molecule, then the excess ghost energy is giving off by one H-Atom or numerous of H-Atoms? """
     
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  3. Aug 14, 2014 #2

    Drakkith

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    I don't know what "ghost energy" is. It sounds like pseudo-science nonsense. However, I can tell you that the hydrogen atoms do in fact exist when you aren't observing them. They just don't have a well defined position until observation.
     
  4. Aug 14, 2014 #3
    It has to deal with the Quantum Wave Function...The Particles where not in attendance or seen until something was observed and left residue energy of phantom atoms...Which led to the concept of Schrodinger's Cat Analogy. I do not believe it is Pseudo-Science due to the fact many of the major University and top Physicists with the best equipment agree for the most agree to the infinite or indefinite number of parallel universes and worlds out there from 10-D string theory to M-theory. The top scientist who believe in the extra dimensions and parallel worlds are like the hall of fame list...Alan Guth M.I.T., Andre Linde of Stanford, Lisa Randall of Harvard, Max Tegmark, Brian Greene, Michio Kaku, Michael Duff. These are the best of the best of the University Physicists and there is more truth than meets the eye
     
  5. Aug 14, 2014 #4

    Drakkith

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    Do you have some sort of reference for this?
     
  6. Aug 14, 2014 #5

    PeterDonis

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    Two things to keep in mind:

    (1) Pop science books or TV shows are *not* the same as actual science. What these "top scientists" say in pop science presentations has to be taken in context.

    (2) As far as actual science is concerned, all of the stuff about extra dimensions, parallel worlds, etc. is *speculation*, and none of the "top scientists" you mention claim otherwise. They understand the difference between speculation and knowledge. (They don't always get across that difference very well in pop science presentations, but that's why I put in point #1 above.)
     
  7. Aug 14, 2014 #6
    I have read Brain Greene of Columbia University Books, Lisa Randall (Warped Passages), Michio Kaku many books, Max Tegmark of M.I.T, Michael Talbot (Holographic Universe) and many others...based on the mathematics of geometry and calculus equations and computational math equitation's from all the experiments, research, field test, Mathematics, and conclusions based on the equations many of the top physics gurus all point to 10 to 11 Spatial Temporal dimensions, Never ending expanding Universe, Multiple Infinite number of Parallel Universes with infinite or indefinite number of yourself.

    As for the TV shows, I never seen them. I just look at the facts of the research based on their books and papers. There might not be ways to prove they exist due to Duality issues, however the math we are dealing with exposes a bizarre and hidden reality that is so profound and mind blogging that it so hard to imagine.

    Even if it Speculation due to we are not equip to test this theories properly and math says otherwise, they are there.

     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
  8. Aug 14, 2014 #7
    The reference of the ghost like energy or something else I mentioned?


     
  9. Aug 14, 2014 #8

    Drakkith

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    A reference on ghost energy, ghost atoms, etc. I'm hoping this is just another name for something that real science has, otherwise I'll have to lock this thread.
     
  10. Aug 14, 2014 #9

    PeterDonis

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    This is backwards. "Speculation" means we do not know that "they are there". We speculate that they are there, but until we have some way to test it, it is speculation, not knowledge. You can't prove that something exists just by using math; there are mathematical models of *lots* of things that don't exist. That's why physics is an experimental science.
     
  11. Aug 14, 2014 #10
    "READ TOP TO BOTTOM"



    We looked at the example of Schroedingers Cat. Perhaps you wondered how the cat could be existing in two contradictory realities at the same time. Certainly real cats do not exhibit such bizarre features. But if we descend to the molecular level of reality, we shall find our examples of Schroedinger's Cat. They are molecules and atoms that make up your nervous system.

    For the Cat in the cage, it was the interaction of a radioactive atom with the cat that caused the double reality of a live cat and dead cat existing side by side within the cage. If the atom radiated, the cat was dead. If, on the other hand, the atom did not radiate, the cat was still alive.

    The Atom was an analogy to the actual behavior of the triangular NH2 Molecule. This molecule looks just like an isosceles triangle with two equal sides. But because of its tiny size, the triangular molecule participates in quantum reality in order to remain stable.

    Molecules are curious things. Each is made up of atoms that stick by electrical forces. But it seems these forces are not enough to keep the molecule stable. If the forces become too attractive or too repulsive, the molecules shakes and sometimes flies apart. Quantum Magic glue comes to the rescue and keeps all molecular families of atoms together.

    However, the price is high: family members must give up their individual selves. they must live in a "qwiff"(quantum wave function) world that has 2 or more places at the same time. The moment any of the atoms that make up the molecule become located in one spot, the molecule begins to shake and dance. It radiates away excess energy in its attempt to stabilize itself. The little triangle is no exception the rule.

    In other words, the H-Atoms do not exist separately whenever they are part of the molecule. All we have are their remnants, their "Qwiffian" (Wave Function) Ghosts to remind us that they are potentially present. Their actual presence comes into being only when they are noticed. At that instant, the molecules shakes. The radioactive atom in Schrodinger Cat Cage is analogous to the dual positions of the H-Atoms in the molecular triangle. To find a single position, the little triangle encounters the gate. In the case of Schrodinger's Cat, the cat plays the role of the protein gate.
     
  12. Aug 14, 2014 #11
    I have to type this out and I am not a fast typer. Do you want more information or time to call it quits? I will type it out in detail for you if you want.
     
  13. Aug 14, 2014 #12
    After the interaction of the Triangle with the gate, we have two gate positions. This is completely Analogous to what happened to the cat after it is interacted with the radioactive atom. The Gates qwiff(wave function) is double positioned. Now, if the gate is open, the cell continues to fire. A neighboring neuron responds to the signal. If it receives two or more blips, telling the gate is still opened, it transmit a high frequency signal, alerting the neural network of which it is a small piece.

    On the other hand, if the gate is closed, the neighbor only transmit a low frequency signal to the test of the CNS net of which it is a piece. What does it do? That depends on you or, more specifically, on your agency. The agent must pay attention to that frequency, listen to the melody. Since the triangle was in two places (like the radioactive atom that may or may not have radiated) at the time of interaction with the gate, the gate (like the cat that is, at once, alive and dead) is both opened and closed, potentially at the same time. Thus it is simultaneously firing to it neighbor and not firing. Following along the logical chain of possible events, that means the agent is sensing both a high frequency and low frequency signal at the same time, and yet the agent is not really sensing anything at all (like the cats observer who has not opened the box) why? because these signal are potentially present in your nervous system, they are in your qwiff world (quantum wave function world)
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
  14. Aug 14, 2014 #13
    The agent must choose to notice that there is a low-frequency or a high frequency signal on his line. All it takes is for him to choose it. Once he has, it becomes part of your agency agenda. Suppose he notices the high frequency. And down at the molecular level, the gate is opened and the little triangular tail points upward. Of course, if he noticed a low frequency, then the chain of logic back to the little triangle, it would be pointing downward.

    In either case, something is noticed. A choice was made. The original cell undergoes another kind of transformation: it transmits, at the instant notice is taken, a train of microwave frequency pulses to a nearby muscle fiber, which then contracts mechanically. The agent was completely free to notice the signal at any time. There was nothing causing him to take note at the particular time. He was also free not to note it.
     
  15. Aug 14, 2014 #14
    There is a lot more but I have to cut this short. I need to leave for the time being. Have a good day. I will finish it tomorrow or this week of not blocked out.
     
  16. Aug 14, 2014 #15

    PeterDonis

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    It's an NH3 molecule (ammonia); NH2 is not a stable molecule. And the spatial configuration of NH3 is a tetrahedron; the three H atoms lie in an equilateral triangle, and the single N atom is the fourth vertex of the tetrahedron (the triangles that have the N atom as a vertex are not equilateral).

    It's not size that makes the difference: it's the fact that there are two stable configurations of the molecule, because there are two ways the tetrahedron can be oriented (depending on which side of the plane formed by the three H atoms the N atom is on). The ground state configuration of the molecule at room temperature is a superposition of the two stable configurations, because each of them has the same energy and the potential barrier between them is low enough that quantum tunnelling between them occurs at room temperature.

    Huh? The electrical forces are the only ones present. Quantum mechanics does not add any new forces.

    Quantum mechanics isn't what stops this from happening; it's the fact that the kinetic energy of the atoms due to the shaking is less than the binding energy of the chemical bonds in the molecule. If you increase the temperature enough, you can make any molecule fly apart, quantum mechanics notwithstanding.

    I can't comment on the rest of your post, or your subsequent ones, because I don't understand what you're trying to say. I suspect you have built an imaginary scenario on a flawed understanding of quantum mechanics.
     
  17. Aug 14, 2014 #16

    Drakkith

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    Starrlord, when you provide a reference you typically give the source you are referencing your information from. Is this a book? A video? What?
     
  18. Aug 16, 2014 #17

    mfb

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    Their books are not their research, they are attempts to explain the research to laymen. Which papers did you read, for example?

    Which paper mentiones a "ghost energy", an NH2 molecule or "Quantum Magic glue"?
     
  19. Aug 16, 2014 #18
    How the hell do you know that?
     
  20. Aug 16, 2014 #19

    mfb

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    If you start observing them again after a while, they behave exactly as if they had existed all the time. If they would suddenly stop existing, why would your atoms start existing exactly in the right way to give the illusion of continuous existence?
    See also occam's razor.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2014
  21. Aug 16, 2014 #20

    Drakkith

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    Starrlord, I am going to lock this thread for the time being. If you have a reference, please send it to me via a private message. If it turns out to be a valid reference, I'll unlock the thread.
     
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