Conclusion: Everything is Different

[ogb p]

The statement "Everything is Different" is different from the statement "Everthing is the Same"; they are not the same.

To say something is true is different from saying something is false. Logic can not exist if True is the same as False.

If the above statements are accecpted as things that are not the Same, then the statement "Everthing is the Same" is false.

Assuming that a "thing" is an entity or event within the dimensions of time and space, then it follows that no two distinct "things" (objects) could occupy the exact same position in time and space. Therefore, a thing is only exactly the same to itself, and itself is not another thing. No two things are exactaly the same.

Things can be similar, which means they are the same within specific criteria (parameters, contexts, ect.) only. But Sameness in an absolute sense is Identity.

 

[FZ+]

Assuming that a "thing" is an entity or event within the dimensions of time and space, then it follows that no two distinct "things" (objects) could occupy the exact same position in time and space.

Can you run by me how this follows?

 

[ogb p]

it follows from the assumption that each point in 3D space is unique. For example: a point represented by coordinates (1, 2, 3) is different from a point represented by (0, 0, 0). Although you could rearrange a coodinate system so that within separate systems different points have identical representations, it still follows that, whithin any coordinate system identical to 3D space, each individual point has a unique representation. The addition of a time dimension, if it is assumed to be continuous and always increasing, makes it's addition to 3D space result in 'points' that are unique in time and space.

I am considering an "event" a unique subset of 3D space containing a finite amount of fundamental particles at a specific point in time. An "entity": a subset of 3D space and time. I can not thing of any "thing" that can not be described in these general terms. Does anyone have a counterexampe of a thing that does not fit my definitions of "event" and "entity"?

 

[mikelus]

I peronally don't believe that our logic is based on true and false. Logic in itself I feel is coming to a conclusive desision or choice based on previous ideas or wisdom that were brought to you by a problem or question. Everything is different but were the same too. In the sense that we all are in this life together at the same time just with all different perspectives to one another.

 

[ogb p]

By "our logic" I assume you mean the logic that we as humans use in our practical everyday life and existence; "our logic" is fuzzy. In the discipline of formal logic the Law of the Excluded Middle is fundamental.

My main point is that we are 'the same' only within specific contexts/criteria/parameters. 'The same' is a relative term. The 'Same', in an absolute sense, is merely an trivial Identity function.

 

[kyle_soule]

Originally posted by ogb p
The statement "Everything is Different" is different from the statement "Everthing is the Same"; they are not the same.

To say something is true is different from saying something is false. Logic can not exist if True is the same as False.

If the above statements are accecpted as things that are not the Same, then the statement "Everthing is the Same" is false.

Assuming that a "thing" is an entity or event within the dimensions of time and space, then it follows that no two distinct "things" (objects) could occupy the exact same position in time and space. Therefore, a thing is only exactly the same to itself, and itself is not another thing. No two things are exactaly the same.

Things can be similar, which means they are the same within specific criteria (parameters, contexts, ect.) only. But Sameness in an absolute sense is Identity.

A physical "thing" is an entity within the dimensions of time and space; however, TRUTH is not tangible and therefore does not occupy or exist in either time or space. Well, let me rephrase that, truth is everywhere at the same time. Two sticks taking together will always be two no matter if you are in position x,y,z at time t or in position 2x,y,z at time t or in position x,y,z at time 2t, you get the point.

The things you speak of in the first few paragraphs cannot be considered to occupy physical time or space.

 

[nautica]

I need some of what your taking.

Nautica

 

[ogb p]

Originally posted by kyle_soule
A physical "thing" is an entity within the dimensions of time and space; however, TRUTH is not tangible and therefore does not occupy or exist in either time or space. Well, let me rephrase that, truth is everywhere at the same time.

If TRUTH is "everywhere at the same time" then isn't it unique? Can there be more than one TRUTH? Of course there can be many truths, which are partially the TRUTH, but truths do not hold true 'everywhere at the same time'.

Two sticks taking together will always be two no matter if you are in position x,y,z at time t or in position 2x,y,z at time t or in position x,y,z at time 2t, you get the point.

No, I'm not sure what your point is. You (and sticks) can only occupy one position in time and space. When you speak abstractly, then you can theoerize about being at this point, that point, or some other point, but in reality you are, at any given moment, occuping one postition in space.

The things you speak of in the first few paragraphs cannot be considered to occupy physical time or space.

My speaking in the first few paragraphs came into existence at a specific time and space. It now exists on the physicsforum server for a certain, finite amount of time. But I realize you meant the things I 'speak of'... Logic and semantics... although it is beyond proof, there is nothing contradicting the idea that these are only human conventions.