Existence of solution to Poisson's equation

  • Thread starter Manchot
  • Start date
  • Tags
    Existence
In summary: So, it seems like we can'tIn summary, the conversation discusses the process of proving the justification for setting the divergence of a vector potential using gauge shift. The Helmholtz theorem is mentioned, which requires a vector function to decay faster than 1/r at infinity. The issue of potential quantities, which may not decay, is also raised. The main goal is to show that fixing the divergence of the gauge-shifted potential is equivalent to adding the gradient of a scalar function. The question of whether or not the system of equations can be solved and the Poisson equation can have a solution without specified boundary conditions is also brought up. A potential method for constructing a solution is discussed, but there are concerns about its validity. The Wikipedia
  • #1
Manchot
473
4
I'm reteaching electrodynamics to myself on a more rigorous footing, and I'm trying to prove to myself that setting the divergence of the vector potential is justified using a gauge shift. I could use the Helmholtz theorem to do this, but the problem with this from my perspective is that I haven't actually justified the full version of the theorem, only the weaker version which requires that a vector function decay to zero faster than 1/r at infinity. This isn't a problem for the field quantities (since all physical fields decay like 1/r^2); nevertheless, they do pose a problem for the potential quantities (which in general will not even decay). Basically, given a vector potential [tex]\vec{A}[/tex], I want to show that fixing the divergence of the gauge-shifted potential [tex]\vec{A}\prime[/tex] to some scalar function [tex]D[/tex] is equivalent to adding the gradient of some some scalar function [tex]\phi[/tex].

[tex]\nabla \cdot \vec{A}' = D[/tex]
[tex]\nabla \cdot (\vec{A} + \nabla \phi) = D[/tex]
[tex]{\nabla}^2 \phi = D - \nabla \cdot \vec{A}[/tex]

Since the right-hand side is just some function of position, proving that the divergence can be adjusted by adding the gradient of a scalar amounts to proving that Poisson's equation has a solution for an arbitrary source term. No boundary conditions are specified, so I would expect that there are actually an infinite number of solutions; however, I cannot prove this. Does anyone have any insights? Thanks.
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
Can we solve this system of equations?

[tex]\nabla \cdot \mathbf{X} = \theta[/tex]
[tex]\nabla \times \mathbf{X} = 0[/tex]

If we know [itex]\nabla \times \mathbf{V} = 0[/itex], can we solve this equation?

[tex]\nabla \varphi = \mathbf{V}[/tex]

If so, then we can chain these results to solve the Poisson equation.

[tex]\nabla^2 \varphi = \theta[/tex]

If you know a counterexample to one of the above questions, I suspect you could use it to construct a Poisson equation without a solution.
 
  • #3
Thanks for the response, Hurkyl. I've been thinking about it some more, and I've been able to informally construct a solution to the equation, but I'm still not quite satisfied. Since there are no boundary conditions specified, and I'm just trying to construct any solution, I arbitrarily specified that

[tex]\phi (x=0) = \frac{\partial \phi}{\partial x} = 0 [/tex]

It would then seem to me that if you numerically integrated with a small enough dx, you could construct phi as follows:

[tex]\phi (x+dx,y,z) = \phi (x,y,z) + \frac{\partial \phi}{\partial x} (x,y,z) \cdot dx[/tex]

[tex]\frac{\partial \phi}{\partial x} (x+dx,y,z) = \frac{\partial \phi}{\partial x} (x,y,z) + \frac{{\partial}^2\phi}{\partial {x}^2} (x,y,z) \cdot dx [/tex]

[tex]= \frac{\partial \phi}{\partial x} (x,y,z) + (f(x,y,z) - \frac{{\partial}^2\phi}{\partial {y}^2}- \frac{{\partial}^2\phi}{\partial {z}^2}) \cdot dx[/tex]

(f(x,y,z) is the source term.) Obviously, this method fails for some source terms, like the pathological sin(1/x) or any function which blows up, but other than those cases, it seems to be pretty solid. I've tried to "un-discretize" the construction to form integrals, but the expression gets pretty messy quickly. Could anyone explain how to to it a little more formally, since I'm still not convinced?
 
Last edited:
  • #5
Hurkyl said:
Wikipedia gives a solution for a function that decays adequately:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screened_Poisson_equation
Yeah, but AFAIK, the problem with that solution is that the integral will only converge if the source term decays faster than 1/r^2, which is not in general the case when dealing with potentials.
 

1. What is Poisson's equation?

Poisson's equation is a mathematical equation that relates the second derivative of a function to the function itself. It is commonly used in physics and engineering to describe the distribution of a quantity, such as electric potential or temperature, in a given space.

2. Why is the existence of a solution to Poisson's equation important?

The existence of a solution to Poisson's equation is important because it allows us to accurately model and understand physical phenomena. It also enables us to make predictions and solve practical problems in various fields, such as electromagnetism, fluid dynamics, and heat transfer.

3. Is there always a solution to Poisson's equation?

In general, there may not always be a solution to Poisson's equation. However, under certain conditions, such as a well-defined domain and appropriate boundary conditions, a unique solution can be found using various mathematical methods.

4. How do scientists determine the existence of a solution to Poisson's equation?

Scientists use various techniques and methods, such as Green's functions, variational methods, and numerical methods, to determine the existence of a solution to Poisson's equation. These methods involve solving the equation and checking for consistency and convergence.

5. Are there any real-life applications of Poisson's equation?

Yes, Poisson's equation has numerous real-life applications. It is used in designing electronic circuits, analyzing fluid flow in pipes and channels, predicting heat transfer in materials, and modeling the behavior of charged particles in electromagnetic fields, among others.

Similar threads

  • Differential Equations
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
9
Views
752
  • Quantum Physics
Replies
5
Views
509
Replies
4
Views
816
Replies
3
Views
726
Replies
1
Views
697
  • Differential Equations
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • Classical Physics
Replies
2
Views
906
  • Differential Equations
Replies
1
Views
2K
Back
Top