Exit exam news: school board defies state

[Math Is Hard]

but it doesn't really matter because the board has no authority!

In defiance of state law, the Oakland school board voted Wednesday night to grant diplomas to seniors who have not passed the state-required exit exam, in a 4-2 vote.

Because the bankrupt district is under state control and the board has been stripped of decision-making powers, however, the resolution cannot be enforced unless approved by state-appointed Administrator Randolph Ward.
Ward was chosen to lead the district by State Superintendent Jack O'Connell, who wrote the exit exam legislation, in 2003.

Ward left the meeting before the board voted and could not be reached for comment.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/06/01/BAGLFJ5MCT1.DTL

 

[DeadWolfe]

"It's very unfair to say to students who, for 13 years, have done what we have asked them to do, 'You can't graduate.' "

...umm, no?

 

[silkworm]

Well, we asked them to pass the test and they didn't?

When are people going to realize that education is about training and not about tasks? If the person can not demonstrate they have been trained, for whatever reason, they simply have not been trained and should not be recognized as such.

 

[Pengwuino]

There seems to be a general feeling that a diploma means "I went to this one street address for 4 years, hire me" and not "I have the knowledge of 4 more years of education" in California. I mean if they can't pass this stupid exam (and it is a stupid exam, my class was the first to take the prototype version that was later dumbed down tremendously for the subsequent years use), then i don't think you worked very hard in the previous 4 years as so many "activists" are saying the kids did. Bleh that sentence made sense, shut up.

And what's this BS about kids having 4.0's and not being able to pass the exit exam? SOMETHINGS WRONG THERE! I don't know what's worse, that someone could be so stupid as to not pass the exit exam or that the system is so corrupt that someone could be so stupid as to not pass the exit exam yet still get a 4.0.

 

[Rach3]

It's so unfair for a diploma to require actually passing on a single test. They should drop that requirement. Then there would be no point in having the tests, so drop those too. But the whole point of the cirriculum is to teach to the test, that's all the teachers know to do. So get rid of the cirriculum, and fire all the teachers. Then send everyone a diploma in the mail, no questions asked. It's the only fair way.

 

[Pengwuino]

It's so unfair for a diploma to require actually passing on a single test. They should drop that requirement. Then there would be no point in having the tests, so drop those too. But the whole point of the cirriculum is to teach to the test, that's all the teachers know to do. So get rid of the cirriculum, and fire all the teachers. Then send everyone a diploma in the mail, no questions asked. It's the only fair way.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: But that's too logical! And logical decisions require at least a high school education. So logically, we can't do that either.

 

[Rach3]

Your rebuttal was itself logical, so we must exclude it.

 

[franznietzsche]

It's so unfair for a diploma to require actually passing on a single test.

No its not, this test is an utter joke. Everything on the test should be covered by a normal high school student by the end of their junior year at the absolute latest. The math is basic, basic geometry and algebra (4x+2 =6, solve for x / find the area of this triangle).

(Yes, I note the sarcasm in the rest of the post, but that's not the point)

At a certain point you have to able toa ccount for a certain level of performance. A diploma is supposed to say 'I can perform these certain tasks' If you can't do it, you don't get one. Period. Ever. End of story.

 

[Pengwuino]

franz, did you read the rest of his post?

 

[franznietzsche]

franz, did you read the rest of his post?

Did you read the middle line in parenthesis in my post?

 

[Pengwuino]

Did you read the middle line in parenthesis in my post?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I give up on myself.

 

[franznietzsche]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I give up on myself.

Don't worry, so do we :rofl:

At least it was highly ironic.

 

[Math Is Hard]

I have been really curious about what is asked on the test. I found this sample:http://www.californiareport.org/domains/californiareport/060207-exitexam.jsp

Doesn't seem too difficult. Of course, I am also hearing opponents of the test say that the samples that are given out (like the ones below) aren't truly representative of the actual questions. They claim that only the easy questions are being shown in order to fool the public into thinking it is a simple test.

****************************************************
Sample Test Questions
Here is a sampling of questions from previous versions of the California High School Exit Examination.

Math:

1) A CD player regularly sells for $80. It is on sale for 20% off. What is the sale price of the CD player?
a. $16
b. $60
c. $64
d. $96

2) Which of the following numerical expressions results in a negative number?
a. (-7) + (-3)
b. (-3) + (7)
c. (3) + (7)
d. (3) + (-7) + (11)

3) Three-fourths of the 36 members of a club attended a meeting. Ten of those attending the meeting were female. Which one of the following questions can be answered with the information given?
a. How many males are in the club?
b. How many females are in the club?
c. How many male members of the club attended the meeting?
d. How many female members of the club did not attend the meeting?

4) If n = 2 and x = 1/2, then n(4 - x) =
a. 1
b. 3
c. 7
d. 10

English Langauge Arts:

Students read a brief article describing some of the positive features of California, then were asked the following questions:

5) What does the word "eccentricities" mean in the following sentence? "The state's wealth is only increased by its eccentricities and its magic."
a. unusual characteristics
b. large population
c. diverse climate
d. famous beauty

6) Which of the following lines from the article BEST supports its theme?
a. "Fragrant, fruit-scented breezes waft through valleys full of orange groves."
b. "The state's wealth is only increased by its eccentricities and its magic."
c. "You don't have to travel to many other states to realize that California is a world unto itself."
d. "California's population is as diverse as its geography."

7) Which of the following strategies does the author use MOST frequently to describe California?
a. imagery
b. statistics
c. expert opinion
d. historical fact

Answers: 1) C; 2) A; 3) C; 4) C; 5) A; 6) C; 7) A

Source: California Department of Education

 

[franznietzsche]

I have been really curious about what is asked on the test. I found this sample:http://www.californiareport.org/domains/californiareport/060207-exitexam.jsp

Doesn't seem too difficult. Of course, I am also hearing opponents of the test say that the samples that are given out (like the ones below) aren't truly representative of the actual questions. They claim that only the easy questions are being shown in order to fool the public into thinking it is a simple test.

Then they're flat out lying. Thats pretty much the level of the test. Or at least, it was when I took it three years ago, so unless its changed significantly and the sample hasn't, they're lying.

 

[Pengwuino]

Doesn't seem too difficult. Of course, I am also hearing opponents of the test say that the samples that are given out (like the ones below) aren't truly representative of the actual questions. They claim that only the easy questions are being shown in order to fool the public into thinking it is a simple test.

Bulls***. I took the harder prototype test and IT IS THAT EASY. It was a joke. What i find even more annoying was that our class had to take the test as a complete surprise and we still rocked its world, no "teaching the test" crap either.

I have a feeling the activists say its too hard because they probably couldn't pass it themselves...

 

[franznietzsche]

I have a feeling the activists say its too hard because they probably couldn't pass it themselves...

I wouldn't be surprised if 50% of adults couldn't pass it in the state, given that 75%(ish) of students failed it the first year, IIRC. Doesn't mean its hard, or that they deserve a diploma anyway. It certainly doesn't speak well of california public schools.

 

[Math Is Hard]

I am just so amazed that students are taking the test three or four times and STILL can't pass it. That is just incredible to me.

 

[Pengwuino]

I am just so amazed that students are taking the test three or four times and STILL can't pass it. That is just incredible to me.

I don't find it very incredible. Kids just don't care and if they want to be poor and be targets of politicians pandering to them in the future, i don't give a crap. They think they can make it big as a mechanic or a rap star or basketball player or punk music idiot?. Go ahead... god i hate having to pay for these moron's medical bills.

 

[Rach3]

Perhaps the vast majority of the public doesn't have the type of reasoning ability to solve word problems? As far as I can tell those questions are middle-school math, there's really not much four years of high school can help with. No reasonable way to spend four years teaching it.

Then again, I am severely out of touch with these things...

 

[Rach3]

By the way, would someone justify to me why algebraic reasoning is so important for the entire public to know?

 

[Gokul43201]

Shock and awe, folks. SHOCK and AWE !

 

[Gokul43201]

By the way, would someone justify to me why algebraic reasoning is so important for the entire public to know?

It teaches you how to determine one or more unknowns that are related in some known way to a set of knowns. That's a basic problem solving skill. Of course, if someone else is going to solve all your problems for you...

 

[Pengwuino]

You wonder what would happen if someone had all this crap for college. Its the same thing. You're there to learn, you're there to get an education, a degree means you have a certain set of skills. People would be outraged! People would laugh at the idea of someone sueing because they didnt receive their bachelors after sitting around for 4 years.

Yet in California the idea is being taken seriously... It's as if people don't think high school is about education. Well what the hell am i saying, most people DONT think high SCHOOL is about getting an education. They think its partying, friends, dates, sex, drugs, blah blah blah. Morons. And you all wonder why i make so many threads about how many stupid people there are.

 

[durt]

This article is sadly amusing: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/02/27/MNG2GHFBFJ1.DTL" .

"I need a diploma," said Iris, a chestnut-haired girl who was born in Los Angeles and grew up in the Mexican state of Jalisco. "I want it. I deserve it. I've been going to school and studying. I want to have a profession."
...
Iris' English is so iffy that pronouncing the words makes her blush. When pressed, she easily identified a shrimp but was stumped by a spoon.

 

[Hurkyl]

You wonder what would happen if someone had all this crap for college. Its the same thing. You're there to learn, you're there to get an education, a degree means you have a certain set of skills. People would be outraged! People would laugh at the idea of someone sueing because they didnt receive their bachelors after sitting around for 4 years.

I'm not so sure. Don't people already try to sue when they get failing grades? Or when they're caught cheating and kicked out?

 

[Pengwuino]

The question of whether to deny diplomas to otherwise qualified students is divisive, with passions high on both sides. Critics sued state educators earlier this month, challenging the legality of the exam, while the same state educators say they are acting in the best interests of students.

There is no question. The kids aren't qualified. It makes me wonder what these "activists" define as a "qualification".

 

[Pengwuino]

I'm not so sure. Don't people already try to sue when they get failing grades? Or when they're caught cheating and kicked out?

Please don't ruin my day :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

First people complain high school graduates can't read and then they complain when they try to stop them from getting diplomas when they can't read... you can't win.

 

[Pengwuino]

Wait this is even more pathetic

"My heart just breaks, because many of these students have been in this country just six months or a year," Martinez-McAfee said later, her eyes welling with tears.

She said the students are bright -- one is doing well in chemistry, and others are taking college-level Spanish -- but that it can take years to learn a language well enough to pass a 10th-grade English exam.

6 months to a year? So let's get this straight! They haven't even attended high school for very long and they still want a diploma? And they can take college-level spanish? oh whoopie! I'd be rather surprised if they didn't know how to speak their own language.

Oh and here's a juicy nugget

For a 16-year-old, Iris Padilla's resume looks pretty good: Not only is she already a senior close to completing all the credits needed to graduate from Richmond High, she's president of a Latin American culture club and is active in political and religious clubs at school. Next year, Iris wants to go to college and study psychology.

How bout you stop wasting your time in clubs and actually learn something?

 

[franznietzsche]

6 months to a year? So let's get this straight! They haven't even attended high school for very long and they still want a diploma? And they can take college-level spanish? oh whoopie! I'd be rather surprised if they didn't know how to speak their own language.

They might have a reasonable argument for a spanish language version of the test, depending on what you consider the test's purpose. If you consider the erbal portion to be intended merely for assessing verbal reasoning capacity, then it would be fine. If on the other hand you consider it meant to be a test of actual english comprehension, then it wouldn't be fine. Personally I think the former is more important.

 

[franznietzsche]

I'm not so sure. Don't people already try to sue when they get failing grades? Or when they're caught cheating and kicked out?

In high school certainly. And they often win(at least in the cases I've known. Little **** valedictorian in my class caught in IB English 12 with his Hamlet book on the desk during the final. Didn't get **** for it. Little pissant). Not so in colleges.

 

[Pengwuino]

They might have a reasonable argument for a spanish language version of the test, depending on what you consider the test's purpose. If you consider the erbal portion to be intended merely for assessing verbal reasoning capacity, then it would be fine. If on the other hand you consider it meant to be a test of actual english comprehension, then it wouldn't be fine. Personally I think the former is more important.

Yah they should make a spanish version. It seems like there's a spanish version of everything else in this state so why not. I am sure that wouldn't stop the complaints however

 

[rcgldr]

One problem with the original post here. The students that failed the exit exam were given certificates of completion, instead of diplomas. They were allowed to attend graduation ceromonies.

 

[Gokul43201]

What's a passing score on this exit exam...typically ?

 

[Pengwuino]

What's a passing score on this exit exam...typically ?

When we received our score, it was "pass" or "fail". That's all they told my class. No score #'s

 

[Math Is Hard]

One problem with the original post here. The students that failed the exit exam were given certificates of completion, instead of diplomas. They were allowed to attend graduation ceromonies.

Is the article incorrect then?

In Oakland, seniors who do not pass the exit exam also cannot participate in graduation ceremonies.