Extra Dimensions & Forces: Exploring Possibilities

In summary, the discussion revolves around the possibility of there being several dimensions of space that we cannot detect. These dimensions may be permeable to different degrees, with weaker forces like gravity permeating them while stronger forces like electromagnetism do not. The idea is that there may only be one force, but it radiates into these unseen dimensions, creating the illusion of multiple forces. One experiment by the University of Washington's Eric Adelberg's group attempted to test this idea, but found no evidence of leakage. Some suggest that time could be a switch between dimensions, while others propose that we are constantly moving at the speed of light, making light or energy a universal unmoving background.
  • #1
Chaos' lil bro Order
683
2
Hello, I was interested in learning more about the possibility that there are several dimensions of space that we cannot physically detect. These spatial dimensions are permeable to radiation to different degrees of permeability. So for example, gravity, being the weakest of the 4 forces we observe, permeates these extra several spatial dimensions and therefore we only see a small part of gravity's total force in our familiar 3 spatial dimensions. The EM force, being the strongest of the 4 forces, would not permeate any of these extra several spatial dimensions and that's why we see it as such a powerful force in our familiar 3 spatial dimensions.

I realize this post is very loosely worded but I think the idea I am trying to express (and get help with) is that there may only be 1 force, but for some reason or the other, this 1 force radiates into several as of yet unseen tiny wrapped-up dimensions and that these tiny dimensions 'steal' part of the 1 forces energy. Therefore to us humans, we see 4 forces, where really there is just 1.

This is kind of GUTish I admit.

Does anyone know of any experiments being done, or slated to be done that would be able to fallsify this idea? I vaguely remember that a Washington group of physicists built a type of pendulum that tested whether to see if gravity leaked into a tiny unseen spatial dimension with an upper limit of 1mm (I think). The experiment observed no such leakage.
 
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  • #2
Chaos' lil bro Order said:
I vaguely remember that a Washington group of physicists built a type of pendulum that tested whether to see if gravity leaked into a tiny unseen spatial dimension with an upper limit of 1mm (I think). The experiment observed no such leakage.
It must be Eric Adelberg's group at University of Washington you're thinking of: http://www.npl.washington.edu/eotwash/
Actually he gave an interesting seminar here about those experiments just a couple of months ago.
 
  • #3
Great follow-up post EL, much appreciated. Your instincts were dead on, that's the Washington group I was trying to think of.
 
  • #4
Found this today:
http://www.arxiv.org/abs/hep-ph/0611223
Adelberger et al said:
We use data from our recent search for violations of the gravitational inverse-square law to constrain dilaton, radion and chameleon exchange forces as well as arbitrary vector or scalar interactions. We test the interpretation of the PVLAS effect and a conjectured ``fat graviton'' scenario and constrain the $\gamma_5$ couplings of pseuodscalar bosons and arbitrary power-law interactions.
 
  • #5
It is possible that there is more then 4 dimensions, but you should know that if their is, then it would either be visible and roomly or a time switch.
The reason why we do not experience time as spatial is that we move along it in the speed of light, (else particles could not emit photons), a speed that cannot be breached. If there were other dimensions, the only reasonable explenation for it not to be spatial would be that it is but the time vektor direction oscillates, making the other dimensions only very temporary and seemingly invisible.

This is my oppinion, and I hope I may express it.
 
  • #6
Some may laugh at the idea that we are moving at the speed of light, but I, for one, think you are on to something. Consider this: the usual view is that no object can be accelerated to light speed. In the view that it is we who move at light speed, this devolves into the idea that no object can be accelerated faster than itself...a nice tautology.

Then there is time dilation. If light "moves" at light speed, then by time dilation, it does not move at all (so we must be the moving ones). This makes light, or energy, rather, a kind of universal unmoving background...the preferred background relitivists hate.

I have loved these kind of speculative fancies ever since I came upon the science fiction shelf in the upstairs, adult section of my hometown Carnegie library. Sadly, as I have grown old, these mere words are no longer firm enough to support the weight of thought on these subjects. One must try to gain the language of mathematics, not an easy task for an arthritic mind not properly educated in these matters.

Perhaps you, Sariaht, are still young enough to hope to master the necessary mathematics. If I may be so bold, I should like to encourage you to overcome any distaste you may have for the difficulties to be encountered. Math gets easier as you go along. I wish I had learned more of it when my mind was flexible enough to do so.

Best wishes,

R.

Sariaht said:
It is possible that there is more then 4 dimensions, but you should know that if their is, then it would either be visible and roomly or a time switch.
The reason why we do not experience time as spatial is that we move along it in the speed of light, (else particles could not emit photons), a speed that cannot be breached. If there were other dimensions, the only reasonable explenation for it not to be spatial would be that it is but the time vektor direction oscillates, making the other dimensions only very temporary and seemingly invisible.

This is my oppinion, and I hope I may express it.
 
  • #7
rtharbaugh1 said:
Some may laugh at the idea that we are moving at the speed of light, but I, for one, think you are on to something. Consider this: the usual view is that no object can be accelerated to light speed. In the view that it is we who move at light speed, this devolves into the idea that no object can be accelerated faster than itself...a nice tautology.

Then there is time dilation. If light "moves" at light speed, then by time dilation, it does not move at all (so we must be the moving ones). This makes light, or energy, rather, a kind of universal unmoving background...the preferred background relitivists hate.

I have loved these kind of speculative fancies ever since I came upon the science fiction shelf in the upstairs, adult section of my hometown Carnegie library. Sadly, as I have grown old, these mere words are no longer firm enough to support the weight of thought on these subjects. One must try to gain the language of mathematics, not an easy task for an arthritic mind not properly educated in these matters.

Perhaps you, Sariaht, are still young enough to hope to master the necessary mathematics. If I may be so bold, I should like to encourage you to overcome any distaste you may have for the difficulties to be encountered. Math gets easier as you go along. I wish I had learned more of it when my mind was flexible enough to do so.

Best wishes,

R.


I appreciate your comments, but you should post them in the philosophy forums. Its unappropriated to post personal theories in the physics forums, especially when I started this thread to discuss experiments that are seeking to test for extra dimensions.

@Sarah

If light is standing still, as you say and we are the one's moving at light speed. How would you explain a simple experiment like me shining a flashlight at you 1 mile away? Is it the light that travels towards you, or do you magically move towards the flashlight at light speed? Your idea is very silly and makes no sense at all. I'm not trying to discourage you, we need good ideas from creative people like yourself. Keep chipping away.
 
  • #8

Related to Extra Dimensions & Forces: Exploring Possibilities

1. What are extra dimensions and forces?

Extra dimensions and forces are theoretical concepts in physics that suggest the existence of additional spatial dimensions beyond the three dimensions (length, width, and height) that we experience in our everyday lives. These dimensions are believed to be too small for us to perceive and exist at the subatomic level. The concept of extra dimensions also includes the idea of additional fundamental forces, beyond the four known forces (gravity, electromagnetism, strong nuclear force, and weak nuclear force), that may only be detectable at these higher dimensional levels.

2. How do extra dimensions and forces affect our understanding of the universe?

Extra dimensions and forces have the potential to revolutionize our understanding of the universe by providing a new framework for explaining the fundamental laws of physics. They may help explain the unification of the four known forces and provide a solution to long-standing problems in physics, such as the hierarchy problem and the unification of quantum mechanics and general relativity.

3. How are scientists exploring the possibilities of extra dimensions and forces?

Scientists are exploring the possibilities of extra dimensions and forces through various theoretical and experimental approaches. These include mathematical models and simulations, particle colliders such as the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), and observations of cosmic phenomena such as black holes and dark matter. These methods allow scientists to test and refine theories about extra dimensions and forces and potentially provide evidence for their existence.

4. What are some potential implications of the existence of extra dimensions and forces?

If extra dimensions and forces are proven to exist, they could have significant implications for our understanding of the universe and our place in it. They could lead to new technologies and innovations, such as advanced propulsion systems and energy sources, and provide a deeper understanding of the fundamental nature of reality. They may also have practical applications in fields such as materials science and medicine.

5. Are there any experiments currently underway to test the existence of extra dimensions and forces?

Yes, there are several experiments currently underway to test the existence of extra dimensions and forces. The most well-known is the LHC, which is colliding particles at high energies to search for evidence of extra dimensions and new particles. Other experiments include the Dark Energy Survey, which is studying the expansion of the universe, and the Alpha Magnetic Spectrometer, which is detecting cosmic rays to search for evidence of extra dimensions. These experiments are ongoing and may provide valuable insights into the nature of our universe.

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