Fact based information about UFO's

[matt2005]

Hi there, my name is Matt. I'm from England. I just though I'd post my opinion on what I think about UFO's.
I do believe there is something out there. But unfortunatley, you can't seem tell the difference between True Facts, and made-up Junk.
But yeh I do believe there is something there. Just a shame how most of the world will tell you differently. If ANYONE has any true fact based information about UFO's etc, or is interested in the same subject, please feel free to email me: matt4@blueyonder.co.uk

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Welcome to PF matt2005.

The UFO Napster is strictly for links and quotes so I moved your post to a new thread.

There is no doubt that anyone interested in UFOs has a twofold challenge: First, sorting the good information from the bad, and then trying to make sense of what we think we know.

 

[Pengwuino]

I saw a UFO once!

It turned out to be a blimp :-/

I still think they were intentionally trying to make people believe they were a UFO however. The whole left side was lit up to look like a spaceship. You only realized itw as a blimp when it did a 180 and a huge screen advertising adidas shoes could be seen...

 

[yourdadonapogostick]

hey, it WAS an ufo until you saw that it was a blimp!

 

[Pengwuino]

haha oh yah good point.

I SAW A UFO!

but then it was identified

 

[James R]

Matt2005:

I do believe there is something out there. But unfortunatley, you can't seem tell the difference between True Facts, and made-up Junk.

What makes you think there are any True Facts, then?

Couldn't it ALL be made-up Junk?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

At the least there are many misidentifications, and there are certainly hoaxes, but this is not all made up. Far too many official military documents prove this.

 

[yourdadonapogostick]

none of which can be fully read. isn't it odd that in anything in which there is a coverup conspiracy, the declassified documents don't do any good because they are blacked out or "lost"?

 

[zoobyshoe]

For me the stories add up to a very strong case that there are actual, physical things flying around, which aren't conventional aircraft. Given inter-steller distances, I think they must all be of terrestrial origin, though, which means secret government, or secret industrial, technological experiments.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

...or exotic, natural, but unrecognized phenomena.

 

[Pengwuino]

I think I've finally discovered what has gone on

The government is simply screwing with you all. They get a paper that goes "Liutenant Johnson convereged upon the Wendys and ordered very hot fries and failed to report the expenditures for food" and just blacked out all the bold text and give it to the public and say they can't comment.

At least that's what id do if i were running things in this country. The worlds my playground.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

none of which can be fully read. isn't it odd that in anything in which there is a coverup conspiracy, the declassified documents don't do any good because they are blacked out or "lost"?

That is one thing that doesn't help the government's case against the Roswell claims. According to the US General Accounting Office investigation [a link to an official copy found in the UFO Napster], many of the daily logs pertaining to the dates in question were illegally destroyed or lost.

Many times the information blacked out is not significant to the UFO issues. These are often the names of politicians or other statesmen, the names of other countries, or references to other classified programs. This is seen in some docs that were later released in full; such as in the case of Senator Russell, who saw and reported to the CIA a close range observation of a saucer while on a secret trip to Russia [also in the Napster]. Note also that often, very compelling information about the UFOs is readable. This has long suggested to me that the US government is just as stumped as everyone else about this subject.

For example, look at the very first case in the UFO Napster: Iran 1976. If the government is hiding something, then why are we reading this official document? This comes directly from the archives at the National Security Agency.

 

[zoobyshoe]

...or exotic, natural, but unrecognized phenomena.

Huge flocks of glowing, ionized insects, that occur only under certain weather conditions. That sort of thing must exist as well, yes, but is too rare to be properly studied and recognized.

 

[DaveC426913]

haha oh yah good point.

I SAW A UFO!

but then it was identified

Nonono"

YOU SAW A UFO!
And then it disappeared in the blink of an eye!

 

[mapper]

Here is a ufo. I have no idea what it is so it is infact a UFO.

http://www.archive.moreservlets.com.accelerate.kattare.com/Web-App-Code/boats/images/yacht.jpg

Unidentified Floating Object.

 

[yourdadonapogostick]

i know what it is! it's a boat! what do i win?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Huge flocks of glowing, ionized insects, that occur only under certain weather conditions. That sort of thing must exist as well, yes, but is too rare to be properly studied and recognized.

Do you have a particular insect in mind? I think this explanation has been used to explain some UFO sightings, but I don't remember what insects were thought to be involved.

Ball lightning, which itself was treated as more UFO nonsense for a long time, accounts for many sightings. Another rather famous UFO film shows what turned out to be a glancing blow on the atmosphere by a meteor that was later estimated to be large enough to destroy a city.

But then we have the many clear cut cases in which a craft of some sort was involved. For example, we have a number of instances of police units chasing these things all over the countryside. See the Highland/Lebanon Illinois police chase in the Napster. One cop states that the craft was directly in front of him and flying low over the highway. Also consider that the famous police chase scene in Close Encounters of the Third Kind was based real events that took place in NJ I think, back in the late 50's or early 60's. The police records for this case are also found in the Napster.

As time goes on, we can begin to rule out the notion that many USAF UFO intercepts were actually encounters with secret Nazi [foo fighters] or Soviet technology. This does help to support the case for a highly advanced technology of unknown origins.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Do you have a particular insect in mind? I think this explanation has been used to explain some UFO sightings, but I don't remember what insects were thought to be involved.

I got this idea from an episode of the X-Files. It was just meant as a "for instance."

But then we have the many clear cut cases in which a craft of some sort was involved. For example, we have a number of instances of police units chasing these things all over the countryside.

When I lived in Minnesota the newspaper had a story about some rural cops who tried to chase one. At some point it swooped at them and bent their antenna. They had a photo of the cruiser, the bent antenna, and the two cops.

As time goes on, we can begin to rule out the notion that many USAF UFO intercepts were actually encounters with secret Nazi [foo fighters] or Soviet technology.

Foo fighters are a kind of thing unto themselves. We thought they were German, and the Germans thought they were ours.

In general, I see a big difference between mere "lights" and reports where actual bodies of the crafts are visible. "Lights" are more likely to be bizarre optical effects from natural causes in most cases. That could be your ball lighning, earthquake lights, strange atmospheric piping of light from one place to a distant place. Large craft, with distinctly seen volume and shape, are obviously different.

This does help to support the case for a highly advanced technology of unknown origins.

I still think it is less "advanced technology" than every magician's trick in the book being used to create the impression of advanced technology. Area 51 may have more David Copperfield's on it's payrole than engineers. The point being that someone at some point may have thought it could be of some strategic use to be able to create the impression of a UFO invasion. The black triangles seem to go out of their way to call attention to themselves. That may be specifically to find out how people react to seeing them.

(I actually got that idea out of a novel I read called Metzger's Dog. In it, the CIA was experimenting with the effects of UFO sightings on various world populations, gathering data for possible future use in mass control operations.)

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I still think it is less "advanced technology" than every magician's trick in the book being used to create the impression of advanced technology. Area 51 may have more David Copperfield's on it's payrole than engineers. The point being that someone at some point may have thought it could be of some strategic use to be able to create the impression of a UFO invasion. The black triangles seem to go out of their way to call attention to themselves. That may be specifically to find out how people react to seeing them.

Based on a number of key examples, it would seem that either ET is visiting, ET being undefined except to say some advanced race of beings, or there has been a sustained, highly classified, long term effort by the US and/or other governments to perpetuate the ET myth. In many cases there seems to be no other explanation possible. However, there is a problem with this explanation: It seems that some of these craft display capabilities that far exceed any known technology. Now, if this were only happening over the last few years, then I would assume that this technolgy is classified. But many of these reports go back far enough in time that gets to be a real stretch if not impossible to explain as government sanctioned snake oil. No matter how unlikely it would seem that we would have visiting ETs, there are known limits to technology found from the late 40s through at least the 70s, and probably into the 80s.

Then of course we have the most extreme conspiracy ideas that suggest that both things are true: ET is here, and the government goes out of its way to hide this "fact" and create confusion. After all, if we take things at face value, many ex-intelligence and military personal have sworn that this is the case. But there is virtually no evidence that the government has created this whole business as a cover.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Oh yes, there are classes of UFOs, if you will, and foo fighters were [are] typical of one class of objects still reported today; esp by pilots. But I agree that generalizations can be dangerous. For all we know, one so called class of UFOs might be explained by half a dozen different phenomena.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Now, if this were only happening over the last few years, then I would assume that this technolgy is classified. But many of these reports go back far enough in time that gets to be a real stretch if not impossible to explain as government sanctioned snake oil. No matter how unlikely it would seem that we would have visiting ETs, there are known limits to technology found from the late 40s through at least the 70s, and probably into the 80s.

The US government did, in fact, hire an extremely clever magician during WWII to create a still classified means of dazzling axis pilots to prevent them from being able to drop bombs on the Panama Canal. This was some kind of swirly, blinding light thingy made from searchlights and rotating mirrors, but no one knows the exact configuration. It worked perfectly: none of their bombs hit anything of importance.

In addition, huge amounts of effort were expended in creating fake inflatable airplanes and tanks to fool German reconaissance pilots into thinking we were ammassed in places we weren't. There were also fake paratroopers dropped in large quantities on D-Day to make them think we were parachuting in where we actually weren't. Most of all, and most effective of all, was the massive "disinformation" campaign that fed them false information about the whereabouts of the coming invasion.

So, from the end of WWII onward all the elements of a concerted effort to make it seem like ET was here were already in place. The original "flying saucers" could well have been secret tests of German designed "flying wings", and, since the rumors of craft from another world sprang up naturally in response to that, the military may have decide to encourage the rumor as a cover for future ways to confuse an enemy in war.

In all cases the craft don't have to actually do anything amazingly advanced, they just have to seem like they can. You don't have to make a craft that can zip out of the visual field at 18,000 mph, you just have to be able to create the visual efect that that is happening. I have no idea how you could do that, but I have no idea how David Copperfield does anything he does.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I got this idea from an episode of the X-Files. It was just meant as a "for instance."

Oh yes, really, the X-Files does a pretty good job to digging up myths and their respective claims and rebuttles. I don't mean to say that it qualifies as a reference, and AFAIK, all of the stories are complete fiction, but the hollywood writers can lay claim to few of the root concepts explored.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

In all cases the craft don't have to actually do anything amazingly advanced

I would agree that this might be possible in some cases, but to say all cases is going too far. However, I have no doubt that, for example, the military plays games with false RADAR projections during combat. Any freshman physics student can begin to imagine how to pull that one off.

 

[Pengwuino]

Man i remember an X-files where there was this company that did this 3d virtual reality thing. It was a company called "FPS" and it was so awesome and i soooooooooo wish that something like that existed in real life.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Oh yes, really, the X-Files does a pretty good job to digging up myths and their respective claims and rebuttles. I don't mean to say that it qualifies as a reference, and AFAIK, all of the stories are complete fiction, but the hollywood writers can lay claim to few of the root concepts explored.

There is a book called something like "The Science Behind The X-Files" which catalogs the origins of the ideas they confablate forward from. I have never checked into the insect idea. I just meant it is the sort of thing that might end up explaining some UFO sightings: weird phenomena that are rare, but real.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I would agree that this might be possible in some cases, but to say all cases is going too far. However, I have no doubt that, for example, the military plays games with false RADAR projections during combat. Any freshman physics student can begin to imagine how to pull that one off.

You are limiting yourself to things that you have an inkling about how to do, yourself. The whole point of being a magician is to figure out ways to fool people into thinking you have defied the laws of nature. As an engineer and physicist, you are stuck to examining ways that things like superspeeds, and non-ballistic maneuvers could actually be accomplished. All that actually needs to happen, though, is that an F-16 pilot, or whatever, has to be fooled into thinking he has seen those things.

You have to imagine the men-in-black at area 51 saying to David Copperfield, "OK, you have an unlimited budget and two years to come up with a way to make an F-16 pilot, in a fully armed plane, think he has come up against a craft like nothing he's ever seen before, something from another planet. Get to work."

Again, I can't tell you how he would even begin to do that, but I have no idea how he does any of the illusions he does. I can't figure out how David Blaine takes a playing card, throws it at a bottle, and ends up with the card inside the previously empty bottle, with eyewitnesses standing all around him.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

We have to consider each situation individually. You and I hashed out that Iran 1976 event. At best, you had to assume the existence of technology that we still don't have. No, I don't see this as possible for many of the most compelling accounts that involve for example, multiple witnesses such as the crew of a military surveillance aircraft, multiple radar contacts, and all occurring at 30,000 feet. But on a case by case basis, if something like this might be possible, then I agree, it must be considered as highly likely when all other options have failed.

Note also that a 60 years long conspiracy that must involve a fairly good number of individuals, that has been kept completely secret, and for which we have absolutely no supporting evidence [testimony], forces us to also consider the most radical conspiracy theories [where we do have sworn affidavits from high ranking intelligence officers] as equally plausible in the same sense of difficulty and complexity. In other words, one of the most basic arguments against the Roswell claims is that a secret can't be kept for that long. Of course my reply is, what secret? Who hasn't heard of Roswell?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Btw, I don't mean to give the wrong impression. Frankly, I think there is some very compelling evidence that a few UFOs are something truly extraordinary, but I have always argued that it may still be possible to explain this all away without invoking the need for ETs. In addition to a government conpiracy, I think it requries that a one or a few unsual phenomena exist that have yet to be identified.