Faith In Religon vs Faith in Science

Do you believe that Faith in Religon is the Same as Faith Science


  • Total voters
    62
  • #76
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The observation of said things (eg the experience of winning the lottery and God) is at first glance rare even when the intstructions are followed.

Here's what my friend did before she had that particular religious experience which was a NDE. She said, "'god', if you don't show yourself to me, I'm going to kill myself," and she, being quite depressed, actually may have meant it. Then the religious experience followed.

I have never tried that nor will I nor do I suggest you do so.

But if you do and you don't have a religious experience, then what? I would say that, for some reason I do not know, the religious experience is rare to start with not unlike winning the lottery.

However, enough people have "won the lottery" so that I don't think Integral is correct when he says the claims are unobservable. I will grant that observing God is rare, it seems, but it is also rare to observe an electron for what percent of the population has observed one?
 
  • #77
Les Sleeth
Gold Member
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honestrosewater said:
How are others supposed to verify your statement, or how can they reproduce your experience for themselves? Presumably, science can give detailed instructions on how to detect an electron- you follow the instructions, and you can detect an electron for yourself. Same goes for math and logic; If you follow the instructions, you can prove 1+1=2 for yourself. Same goes for at least some religions; If you follow the instructions, you can experience some religious object for yourself. So what if someone has followed the instructions, but they don't detect or prove or experience? How do science, logic, and religion handle that situation?
I think there are a couple of issues: the ability to recognize correct instructions and one's predilections.

If one is instructed improperly, then one might dedicatedly practice incorrect instructions forever and get nowhere. I've seen, for example, people practice racquetball for many hours. When they complain they aren't improving yet practicing so much, the better players will say "yes, but you aren't practicing correctly, and so you are actually reinforcing all your bad habits." Often they will stubbornly continue their own way anyway and continue to improve at bad habits.

Something along these lines that seems relevant was a link http://www.lingsoft.fi/~reriksso/competence.html [Broken] Tom posted in another thread about the bliss of incompetence. The opening paragraphs claim:

There are many incompetent people in the world. But a Cornell University study has shown that most incompetent people do not know that they are incompetent.

People who do things badly, according to David A. Dunning, a professor of psychology at Cornell, are usually supremely confident of their abilities -- more confident, in fact, than people who do things well.

One reason that the ignorant also tend to be the blissfully self-assured, the researchers believe, is that the skills required for competence often are the same skills necessary to recognize competence.


Since they don't recognize they are incompetent, they also don't know they are unqualified to teach others. And then, if not many people really know what the correct instructions are, they don't know how to chose an instructor. So just because there are lots of instructors, or because one has an instructor, doesn't mean someone is following the correct instructions.

The other issue, that of one's predilections, is also important. I personally do not "enjoy" math beyond what I need to use in my everyday life. I did well in it in school, but I couldn't wait to get to classes which to me were more concrete (say, history). We tend to enjoy what we naturally excel at, which means we will return to it and apply ourselves. So even if someone receives perfect instructions it doesn't mean they are going to apply themselves in such a way that it produces results. One can't fault the instructions in such a case.

In terms of faith in science and religion, I don't believe there is any difference in the faith principles. I have faith in science because it seems to "work" every time it is properly applied to the proper circumstances. To me, that is the basis of faith (in a practice) . . . if something works.

Religion, that is a tough one because for lots of people it works on a personal level. Some anthropologists, for instance, might say it "works" because it helps people have morals, be calmer, do good works, etc. But that's not all religion claims it is supposed to do for people. How does it "work" for getting people to God (or whatever term one prefers . . . for me it's "something more")? Personally, religion has never worked for me in the slightest that way. But the meditation I practice has. So I don't have faith in religion because it hasn't worked, and I do have faith in a specific type of meditation (when practiced correctly).
 
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