FCC deregulates DSL

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dduardo
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Main Question or Discussion Point

U.S. Internet consumers are official screwed. The FCC has decided in their infinite wisdom to deregulate DSL.

http://www.forbes.com/2005/08/05/fcc-dsl-internet-cx_de_0805autofacescan11.html

In my area there is only one cable company: Adelphia. If you want a static IP address you are forced to "upgrade" to the business line which starts at $100. But at that price you still don't get a static IP address. You have to pay an additional $20 dollars to get a static IP address. Therefore at a $120 you get 6000/768 with a static IP.

On the other hand there are 41 DSL companies providing internet access in my area. At a mere $60 I can get 6000/786 with a static IP.

Now tell me how dereguation is going to help consumers?
 

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Nereid
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Now tell me how dereguation is going to help consumers?
The big boys are playing a very, very high-stakes game - influence the regulator in such a way as to preserve the barriers to entry of serious rivals.

In economic theory, deregulation allows easier market access to potential competitors, be they new entrepreneurs, or large companies making a lateral move (or completely blue-sky possibilities; competition drives down prices and gives consumers greater choice.

And it all works quite well, in most industries. In utilities (telecoms, electricity, gas, water) it's tricky, because at least part of the 'distribution' may be a 'natural monopoly', and in any case, the details matter hugely (as residents of California know only too well, when they go to buy electricity).

In telecoms, technological change is making the regulators' jobs much harder - not only has IP smashed a century-old gravy train (circuit-switched voice), but access technologies are taking the market in directions the old-style regulators couldn't really keep up with (think of WiFi and WiMax, for example).
 
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Well something needs to kickstart dsl (and all other last mile technologies) in America...
 
dduardo
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Anttech said:
Well something needs to kickstart dsl (and all other last mile technologies) in America...
Cable has never been regulated by government and I find the service much worse then DSL.

Also, don't the European governments subsidize the telcos. That's the reason why their internet speeds are superior to those of the U.S.
 
Pengwuino
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dduardo said:
Cable has never been regulated by government and I find the service much worse then DSL.

Also, don't the European governments subsidize the telcos. That's the reason why their internet speeds are superior to those of the U.S.
You do? Every person ive ever talked to has said they love their cable service and many of them had switched over from DSL. Those with DSL also said their service had some problems they didn't like.

And are European speeds really faster? I've never heard anyone say what their speeds are in Europe. In the US, you can get about 6mbit/386 for 40-70 USD with cable a majority of the time. DSL is rather out there however. Depending on where you are, 40 USD will get you as little as 386/128 or as much as 1.5mbps/386 depending on who your company is.
 
dduardo
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I can actually get 6Mb/768 for $60 in my area with a static IP. It costs $120 for cable.

NTL, a European cable company is offering a free upgrade to 10Mb.

http://www.ntl.com/mediacentre/press/display.asp?id=797

And they are also doing a test trial of 20Mb.

Its 18 Euro for 1Mb. 40 Euro for 3Mb. That's amazing.
 
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Evo
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My DSL is only $29 a month, I get it from the local phone company.

Deregulation is going to have no affect on DSL as far as I can tell, anyone has been able to sell DSL so far, I sell the services and equipment to people that want to sell DSL. The reason that you don't see a lot of competition in the DSL market is that it is expensive to set up and with a very limited geographical area within which you can sell, it's rarely profitable. The telephone company usually upgrades central offices to provide DSL where it is feasable, but if there are repeaters or load coils on the lines going from the CO to the end user, the line won't support DSL.
 
dduardo
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Is that with a static ip? Also, are you capped?
 
Moonbear
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What's the purpose for/advantage of/reason for needing a static IP? Does it cost more because that means they need to dedicate that IP to you and so can't keep costs down by rolling users through whatever IP is available when you connect?

I was under the impression cable internet was faster than DSL. Is that not true?

(I do generally have that problem where in most places I've lived, there has been NO competition among cable companies, and some companies are VERY expensive...it's why I don't have cable TV where I currently live because I refuse to pay their extortion fees for TV, then they sell you these "packages" for cable/internet/phone as if they are some special deal, but they're nothing but the price of each individual service added together, and you can't even get internet without paying for cable TV too without any cheap cable option to do that, so fuhgettaboutit!)

Anyway, when I move, the cable rates look more reasonable, so I was thinking about cable internet, but if DSL is better, I'll want to look into the comparison rates. What things should I look at when comparison shopping between the two?
 
Evo
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dduardo said:
Is that with a static ip? Also, are you capped?
Static IP, not capped. The phone service here is cheap, it's also fixed rate, we probably have the lowest rates in the US.
 
Evo
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Moonbear said:
What's the purpose for/advantage of/reason for needing a static IP? Does it cost more because that means they need to dedicate that IP to you and so can't keep costs down by rolling users through whatever IP is available when you connect?
IP addresses are becoming scarce, so providers aren't as willing to give them out now as they were a few years ago. If you give a subscriber a "dynamic" IP address, it means that a large number of users pull from a pool of IP addresses, only using an address when they are logged on. You could, for instance, have 1,000 users sharing 100 IP addresses.

I was under the impression cable internet was faster than DSL. Is that not true?
Yes and no. Cable is a shared service, which means the more subscribers (users) in an area, the slower the service. If there are only a few subscribers to cable, you'll get more bandwidth (faster service). To give you an idea how slow cable can get, I have a friend nearby in a small college town. He has cable and I had a dial up 28k connection at the time. We decided to see whos connection was fastest. We were on the phone and started to download the same file off the internet at the same instant. I downloaded faster than he did, web pages popped up for me faster than for him. He was paying for cable and getting less than a 28k dialup connection. :rofl:

Anyway, when I move, the cable rates look more reasonable, so I was thinking about cable internet, but if DSL is better, I'll want to look into the comparison rates. What things should I look at when comparison shopping between the two?
If it is not heavily populated where you live, go for the cable, if it's cheaper.
 
dduardo
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The main reason to have a static IP is to run servers. For instance, say you want to play a multiplayer game with some friends. You can run a game server on one of your machines and give out your ip address for others to join. Another server you could run is an ssh server, which allows you to login remotely into your network from a computer outside your home. You could also have a http server to host your own website.

Dynamic IP can be compared to an ever changing phone number. How would people ever call you if your phone number keep on changing?
 
Moonbear
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Evo said:
He was paying for cable and getting less than a 28k dialup connection. :rofl:
Yikes! I really had the wrong impression of how that worked.

If it is not heavily populated where you live, go for the cable, if it's cheaper.
Well, I don't really know. It's not heavily populated beyond the college out where I'll be living, but it is a college town with over 20,000 students who probably all have internet of some form or another and there's only one cable provider. But the students are all mostly clustered down in one section of the town, so I don't know how the cable would be distributed between where I am and where they are.

dduardo said:
The main reason to have a static IP is to run servers. For instance, say you want to play a multiplayer game with some friends. You can run a game server on one of your machines and give out your ip address for others to join. Another server you could run is an ssh server, which allows you to login remotely into your network from a computer outside your home. You could also have a http server to host your own website.

Dynamic IP can be compared to an ever changing phone number. How would people ever call you if your phone number keep on changing?
Okay, so from that perspective, it's probably not something I'd need to be concerned with for my use. I'm still using a 56K modem here, but every once in a while, someone decides to send me a 3 MB file while I'm checking email from home and it takes a half hour to download...or someone posts a big picture in GD :biggrin:...which is when I really would like to have the faster connection.

At least now I know to ask some questions before I just go ahead and order.
 
dduardo
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How can you live with dialup? Once you try broadband you never turn back.
 
Moonbear
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dduardo said:
How can you live with dialup? Once you try broadband you never turn back.
The perk to dialup is it keeps my phone line busy so my mom can't call and bug me any time she wants (my friends have my cell phone number). If you ever met my mom, you'd understand why this is a major perk. For large files, I usually just download while at the office, so it's only a pain if someone sends me something late at night or on a day I'm working from home (or when my pain in the neck relatives send 15 photos in one email without resizing any of them or compressing them in any way).
 
dduardo
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You should get VOIP and setup an asterisk PBX. When people call you they have to be on a white list for the phone to ring. You could also have hold music, different mailboxes for different people in the house and an automated menu system.

http://www.asterisk.org/

One funny thing I heard people do with this system is that if a telemarker calls they put that number on a black list. Whenever they call again they get transferred to the voice of a screaming monkey. You could do the same with your mom.
 
Moonbear
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dduardo said:
You should get VOIP and setup an asterisk PBX. When people call you they have to be on a white list for the phone to ring. You could also have hold music, different mailboxes for different people in the house and an automated menu system.

http://www.asterisk.org/

One funny thing I heard people do with this system is that if a telemarker calls they put that number on a black list. Whenever they call again they get transferred to the voice of a screaming monkey. You could do the same with your mom.
:rofl: As tempting as that sounds, then she'd know I was purposely avoiding her. My current method leaves her thinking I'm just busy working online late into the night. But, yes, I could put her on a different ring and then just let voicemail pick up any time she called. I have to find out if VOIP is available where I'm moving. I haven't come across anything about it, so it might not be available in that area yet.
 
dduardo
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Cable is a shared service, which means the more subscribers (users) in an area, the slower the service
So is dsl... contention rates can be 50/1 (50 users on your local loop back to telco)

I have 8MB down 1 Up with a max of 20/1 contention rate, costing me 50E per month (including the fix copper I had put in for the dsl).. My company pays for this anyway so its all good :-)

What's the purpose for/advantage of/reason for needing a static IP?
If you want to do anything that involves routing you need a static IP address... Also if you need a fix VPN tunnel you need a fix IP address and a no NAT (NAT, in which I mean PAT, does strange stuff to VPN tunnel espically in a cisco pix to concentrator enviroment)... And also as dduardo says if you want to host some www services, you will need a fix subnet of public IP address..

IP addresses are becoming scarce, so providers aren't as willing to give them out now as they were a few years ago
True, so lets start getting IPv6 roll out :-)
 
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You should get VOIP and setup an asterisk PBX.
well you would also need to create some IP trunks back to a POP telco for that to work...
 
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Vonage was giving out their stuff for free, and once you have it, you can use Skype, a free service. I think their computer to phone connection for receiving calls from regular phones, and calling regular phones, is .02 per minute. I was thinking about that. If I spend 1000 minutes on the phone, long distance to Sweden, it would cost $20.00.

There are privacy concerns with voip, but if you thought you had privacy to begin with, it is time for a reality check.
 
While cable is a shared service that fluctuates by user and will more than likely bog down at peak hours, dsl is affected in other ways. Just like dial-up, you can get slowed down by distance from the phone companies substation (I believe it's the substation). Another thing that in particular kills me is wiring (I imagine that'd affect cable as well though). Under my trailor during the winter, it's a lake and the lines get all staticy. Sometimes I can't even connect because of the static, but where I live is an uncommon case.
I have a question. Is there a reason ISP's don't use subnet masks? I haven't dedicated much thought to this, so I may figure it out before a reply.
I've also heard of a new IP version that increases available IP addresses exponentially. Can't recall the details and am too lazy to look it up. Perhaps I will later when I'm not tying up my phone line.
 
I'm not as lazy as I thought. Here's what I was refering to in my post just a couple minutes ago. It's IPv6 http://www.ipv6.org/

Here's a brief summary quoted from ipv6.org,
"IPv6 is short for "Internet Protocol Version 6". IPv6 is the "next generation" protocol designed by the IETF to replace the current version Internet Protocol, IP Version 4 ("IPv4").

Most of today's internet uses IPv4, which is now nearly twenty years old. IPv4 has been remarkably resilient in spite of its age, but it is beginning to have problems. Most importantly, there is a growing shortage of IPv4 addresses, which are needed by all new machines added to the Internet.

IPv6 fixes a number of problems in IPv4, such as the limited number of available IPv4 addresses. It also adds many improvements to IPv4 in areas such as routing and network autoconfiguration. IPv6 is expected to gradually replace IPv4, with the two coexisting for a number of years during a transition period."
 

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