Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

Fear of offending Islam

  1. Sep 27, 2006 #1
    Fear of offending Islam spurs hot debate in Europe
    What do you think of the German Opera's cancellation of its production? Was it the right thing to do?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 27, 2006 #2
    Hard to say as that shoddy reporting didn't even bother to explain the context in which the head was to be used, but instead all they reported was three pages fearmongering against Muslims.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2006
  4. Sep 27, 2006 #3

    DaveC426913

    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    Flemming Rose needs to understand that someone, somewhere is responsible for, not simply the principles involved, but the safety of all those involved.

    It's one thing to say "let's stand up for our rights", it's another to try to explain that to the husband and children of someone killed in an altercation.
     
  5. Sep 27, 2006 #4

    Bystander

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper
    Gold Member

    Are you saying the world should adopt an Islamic set of "blue laws?" If not, just where is the "line" to be drawn? Maplethorpe and Serrano "stand up for their rights," and are backed up by SCOTUS and all the machinery of the U.S. Govt. --- doubt very much that there was any effort on anyone's part to be "responsible for, not simply the principles involved, but the safety of all those involved."
     
  6. Sep 27, 2006 #5

    chroot

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Personally, I've always felt that it is unacceptable for one person to expect or demand that every other person act in ways that do not offend. Everyone is different, including their standards of offense, and thus no single value system deserves special attention.

    I subscribe to the "free market" concept of ideas, words, and actions: If you are offended by someone's ideas, do not give him your respect. If you are offended by someone's words, do not read them. If you are offended by someone's actions, do not watch them.

    So long as the majority of Germans have not collectively decided that showing Muhammed's head should be illegal, anyone who wishes to show it there should. If someone is offended by the play, they should exercise their right to simply patronise another theatre. This is the only way that large societies -- with their myriad and conflicting value systems -- can cooperate.

    I feel that most of this Islamic backlash at cartoons, recitations of 14th century speeches, and the like are really very petty. I agree that the Islamic fundamentalists who set fire to embassies for the printing of cartoons are really only doing it because they're getting away with it. When such time comes that the rest of the free world tires of walking on eggshells laid out by Islamic fundamentalists, I expect there will be a brief, violent conflict, scores of dead Islamic fundamentalists, and the rest of the free world will continue on its merry way. I know many muslims, and disagree strongly with the commonly-held American notion that many more pacificts cum fundamentalists are waiting to fill the terrorists' ranks. I think we're dealing with a small, violent minority who simply find it hard truth to discover themselves small fish in a large global pond.

    - Warren
     
  7. Sep 27, 2006 #6
    Well written.
     
  8. Sep 27, 2006 #7
    It's a shame that the actions of the few are held against the majority. I stumbled across a clip from a panel of Muslims discussing the Pope's comments which I was going to put in the thread on that subject, but I feel it would better server the discussion here.

    please watch this.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2014
  9. Sep 27, 2006 #8
    Everything seems to offend the Muslims. This play is historic. (1700's) If they had not lived in isolation from the rest of the world for hundreds of years they would know this.

    According to this link the Play was shown on UK television in 1974.
    http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0411519/
     
  10. Sep 27, 2006 #9
    On the other hand some Cristian extremists are going a bit overbaoard. This documentary seems to indicate that we are building our own young taliban types. These children appear to be much too young to handle the emotions that are being invoked by this type of teaching.

    The documentary itself is supposedly neutral and has won several awards.

    http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0486358/trailers
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2006
  11. Sep 27, 2006 #10

    chroot

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Please be careful with your generalizations. The fundamentalists who comprise the terrorist networks and burn embassies are far from common in the muslim world.

    - Warren
     
  12. Sep 27, 2006 #11
    Sorry that was a generalization But:
    That small part of that population seems to be capable of inciting the general population. Or at the very least the fundamentalists are capable of leaving the general population in a state of fear to act.
     
  13. Sep 27, 2006 #12
    Did you not watch the video I linked?
     
  14. Sep 28, 2006 #13

    DaveC426913

    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    No. I am saying that blanket principles do not supercede individual decisions.

    There are real people involved here - event directors and participants. That event director must make a decision that she is responsible for, about whether to proceed with an event. It is she who will be apologizing to the survivors if anything happens. The line that is drawn, is drawn by a person, not by the rest of us, who are not putting our necks on that line.

    Were we to follow through with your logic, that event director should, by rights, be able to hand you a plane ticket to fly over there, look the participants and their families in the eye(s), and say "I will be responsible if you are injured or killed". Would you?
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2006
  15. Oct 1, 2006 #14

    Bystander

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper
    Gold Member

    Of course they do; individual decisions to commit murder, run red lights, burn leaves, evade taxes, lie, cheat, steal, and all the catalogue of felonies and misdemeanors are superceded by social contracts and the legal codes derived from those social contracts.

    In English law this is called "due diligence." Examples of neglect of "due diligence" would be use of fireworks inside a nightclub as part of a rock music group's performance, the Texas Aggies' homecoming bonfire pole stacking competition, failure to maintain evacuation plans for the City of New Orleans (and every other Gulf Coast community), all of which resulted in preventable deaths.

    You most certainly are putting your neck on "that line" every time you support any decision anyone makes, by silence, patronizing their business, ordering bacon and eggs for breakfast, reading "Satanic Verses" or any other book, or otherwise participating in the every day activities of the culture or nation of which you are a part, and the social contract to which you are party by naturalization or birth. You run an opera house, theatre, skating rink, shopping mall, diner, gas station, toll road, whatever, selling entertainment, goods, services to the public, you are expected to exercise "due diligence," and are inevitably held liable for any lack thereof which results in injuries or other damages to the public. "Due diligence" in such cases includes, but is not limited to, liability insurance, cooperation with regulatory agencies, regular inspections of facilities for fire, health, and other safety hazards, exclusion of at risk individuals ("You must be this tall to ride this roller coaster"), furnishing crowd control, access to emergency services, support to emergency services. It's the price of doing business.

    I am not the government of Germany. I am not the guarantor of the German social contract. The event director is making a social or political statement within the framework of the German social contract; the content of the statement is ambiguous. It may be that Germany should adopt Islam, and it may be that the event director does not feel the German government is capable of protecting its citizens; it is most likely a statement that the event director lacks the confidence necessary to perform the job of scheduling operas and should be fired. If the German government requests guarantees of "redress of grievances" should there be incidents through the terms of NATO, and should the U.S. Govt. appoint me to communicate a message of support to the German Govt., I'll go, look the victims and survivors in their eyes, and tell them we're with them on the hunt for the responsible parties until they're satisfied.
     
Know someone interested in this topic? Share this thread via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook

Have something to add?



Similar Discussions: Fear of offending Islam
  1. Fascist Islam (Replies: 0)

  2. Fear! Fear! Fear! (Replies: 28)

Loading...