Federal Government Revenue: the Income Tax

What is your opinion on revenue generation through income taxes?


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Don't even get me started on military benefits. Until a couple of years ago, old vets like my dad had to drive all the way to the VA hospital in Togus, and sit around for half a day or so to receive basic medical care that was promised to them. Now, the VA has some trailers with office space and treatment rooms so that they can offer services to vets in rural areas. My father lied about his age to join Airborne and fight in WWII, so he's pretty young at 85. Most of the other WWII vets in his region are long gone.
Yep... we treat our veterans well... as well as a dry cow. Truly, we are a tissue of hypocrisy.
 
turbo
Gold Member
3,028
45
Yep... we treat our veterans well... as well as a dry cow. Truly, we are a tissue of hypocrisy.
My father is a proud man. He won't accept any help monetarily. My wife and my brother and I try to help out with heating costs by taping and weatherstripping doors and windows and installing clear "Duck" brand window seals over his windows before every winter season. He lives in a drafty old 175-y-old house that he bought when I was about 10. I froze my *** off in that old barn when I was a kid, and I'm determined that he's not going to live the last years of his life that way. The GOP would rather let him freeze in the dark than allow social programs to expand as needed to address volatility in prices.

BTW, when I was a smart-assed kid, I thought it was cool to support Goldwater, and after the embarrassment of the Nixon administration, I thought that I'd latch onto Reagan. My father was beside himself. The older I get, the more I realize that he might have a point, and my political choices were destructive at best. As a kid growing up in the great depression, he had a bit better perspective than I did.
 
Perspicacity
Yep... we treat our veterans well... as well as a dry cow. Truly, we are a tissue of hypocrisy.
Garbage. Military service does not entitle you to a life of luxury, and you can't expect for the government to put up a VA hospital within 15 miles of wherever a veteran might possibly live. There are more programs to help veterans than I can count.

As for the crap Turbo spouted, he seems unable to grasp the concept that no one is taking money from his father and giving it to rich people—it's just that no one is willing to take more from rich people and give it to his father. Fighting in a war doesn't mean that you get to be carried around on a litter by the rest of society until the day you died.

Turbo's father should have provided for his own retirement, like millions of other veterans do, including myself.
 
28,520
4,839
I would prefer that marginal rates be rolled back to where they were decades ago, so that people riding the wave would pay an equitable share of their income to support the system of government that makes their incomes possible.
That is a typical populist sentiment and it plays very well in politics, but it is purely emotional without any rationality. Over the past 60 years Federal tax revenues hover around 20% of GDP regardless of whether or not the top marginal tax rate was over 90% or under 30%. The way to provide the revenue to pay benefits for people like your dad is to increase the GDP. It may make you feel better to raise tax rates on the rich, but it won't accomplish anything.
 
Perspicacity
My father is a proud man. He won't accept any help monetarily.
So because he doesn't want to accept help from his children, the rest of us should fork over? Maybe his pride is keeping him warm through those cold nights.
 
Aknazer
Have you read that there will be no SS COLA again this year for retired people on Medicare? It's all over the news. The GOP needs to come up with budget proposals that address the needs of older people on fixed incomes, and not try to bail out the wealthy by punishing the poor.
Entitlements in general need a reform. Medicare, Medicaid, and SS made up 43% of the federal budget last year (SS was 20% by itself). And you can thank both Republicans and Democrats for stealing from SS to pay for other programs. And that doesn't even include other "entitlements" like welfare or unemployment (unemployment is another pool of money that states started draining early rather than saving it for its intended use). I don't agree with everything the GOP does, but at least they're willing to talk about the problem that BOTH parties got us into. Instead of pulling a Harry Reid and simply wanting to stick their head in the sand about the issue until it's truely a crisis. Because by that point it will require even more drastic measures, which will lead to even more civil unrest then addressing it before it's a crisis would.

Maybe you or other people should start suggesting things that would fix the current issue rather than simply saying that the suggested changes are unsat?
 
turbo
Gold Member
3,028
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So because he doesn't want to accept help from his children, the rest of us should fork over? Maybe his pride is keeping him warm through those cold nights.
We are pretty self-sufficient here, so your attitude is not warranted. When you are 85+ years old and have weathered everything he has, you have the right to be proud.

If you don't want to "fork over" to retirees and vets that have given all of their lives to build this country and protect it, I have a hard time understanding your attitude.
 
turbo
Gold Member
3,028
45
Entitlements in general need a reform. Medicare, Medicaid, and SS made up 43% of the federal budget last year (SS was 20% by itself). And you can thank both Republicans and Democrats for stealing from SS to pay for other programs. And that doesn't even include other "entitlements" like welfare or unemployment (unemployment is another pool of money that states started draining early rather than saving it for its intended use). I don't agree with everything the GOP does, but at least they're willing to talk about the problem that BOTH parties got us into. Instead of pulling a Harry Reid and simply wanting to stick their head in the sand about the issue until it's truely a crisis. Because by that point it will require even more drastic measures, which will lead to even more civil unrest then addressing it before it's a crisis would.

Maybe you or other people should start suggesting things that would fix the current issue rather than simply saying that the suggested changes are unsat?
Entitlements DON'T need to be reformed. SS is self-funding for decades and with minor tweaks in caps, it can be self-funding forever. Medicare can drastically reduce costs if we can enact meaningful health-insurance reform. This is not health-care reform. What's needed is health-insurance reform, so that insurance companies can't keep dumping care-costs onto care-givers.
 
Perspicacity
We are pretty self-sufficient here, so your attitude is not warranted. When you are 85+ years old and have weathered everything he has, you have the right to be proud.

If you don't want to "fork over" to retirees and vets that have given all of their lives to build this country and protect it, I have a hard time understanding your attitude.
Then why the sob story? There are literally millions of veterans in this nation, and we have no more right to other people's labor than any welfare queen. You'd have us create a system that would steal from productive members of society for the unproductive by putting the face of an 85-year-old veteran on the poor. Yes, some of the poor are just like your father. Some are also thieves, rapists, and murderers. Neither the veteran or the rapist is entitled to be carried through life.
 
Garbage. Military service does not entitle you to a life of luxury, and you can't expect for the government to put up a VA hospital within 15 miles of wherever a veteran might possibly live. There are more programs to help veterans than I can count.
Luxury? :rofl: I don't think they're at risk for that, but maybe endoscopes that are cleaned between use, MUCH larger scale treatment and long-term care for PTSD and TBIs would be a nice perk. There are lots of programs... better to have one that actually does the job. Forget right, forget honor... if you want good people fighting to keep your life the way it is, then you can't show them a future of brain injury, maiming, and a disinterested populace.

As for the crap Turbo spouted, he seems unable to grasp the concept that no one is taking money from his father and giving it to rich people—it's just that no one is willing to take more from rich people and give it to his father. Fighting in a war doesn't mean that you get to be carried around on a litter by the rest of society until the day you died.

Turbo's father should have provided for his own retirement, like millions of other veterans do, including myself.
Fighting in a war means that you've sacrificed something; my grandfather fought in WWII, and by his own accounts was never the same after. Successful? Oh yes, but maybe if we didn't have a complete clusterlove-in of a mental health system, he wouldn't have just had to suffer quietly, in the luxury he made for himself.

That you leap to the concept of luxury is absurd, your view overly binary, your utter lack of respect for another user who has done NOTHING to you is less than endearing. You like the laws of the jungle?... then you only get what you can protect; if rich people can't keep their wealth from the "poor", tough for them. The theft you abhore can't be your only ethic, or it's not an ethic at all.
 
28,520
4,839
There are literally millions of veterans in this nation, and we have no more right to other people's labor than any welfare queen.
Well, a veteran does have more right than a welfare queen.

The veteran risked life and limb to provide an extremely valuable service to me, so I am OK paying for pension and medical care (similarly I am ok paying prices for consumer goods which include retirement and medical benefits for their workers). This will allow the military to continue to recruit more people and protect me and my family (similarly that allows companies to continue to recruit people to produce valuable consumer goods for me).

The welfare queen on the other hand never provided anything of value to me, so I don't know why I should pay her way at all.
 
Aknazer
We are pretty self-sufficient here, so your attitude is not warranted. When you are 85+ years old and have weathered everything he has, you have the right to be proud.

If you don't want to "fork over" to retirees and vets that have given all of their lives to build this country and protect it, I have a hard time understanding your attitude.
I'm currently in the military. My Grandfather on my step-dad's side was in the 101st Airborne in WWII. My grandfather on my mom's side was in the Navy during Vietnam (was on the river boats). My dad is retired Navy. My step-dad is retired Air Force. I've had an uncle in the Army, Navy, Marines, and Army National Guard. I have had relatives in ALL branches of service. And so far every single one of them has gotten another job since either separating or retiring. And every one of them has either planned ahead and saved for retirement, or at least been given the opportunity.

Now I'm sorry if your dad didn't plan ahead. And I'm sorry that the government basically lied to him about Social Security and that he actually trusted in the government. But that doesn't mean my taxes should go up because he didn't properly plan for the future. And if he's too proud to ask/accept help when it's needed then that's on him, not the taxpayer.

I also understand that the military hasn't always been treated the best and that sometimes there's still issues with some vet benefits. But things have greatly improved and you can't expect everything like hospital care to just be handed to you regardless of where you choose to live.
 
Perspicacity
Luxury? :rofl: I don't think they're at risk for that, but maybe endoscopes that are cleaned between use, MUCH larger scale treatment and long-term care for PTSD and TBIs would be a nice perk. There are lots of programs... better to have one that actually does the job. Forget right, forget honor... if you want good people fighting to keep your life the way it is, then you can't show them a future of brain injury, maiming, and a disinterested populace.



Fighting in a war means that you've sacrificed something; my grandfather fought in WWII, and by his own accounts was never the same after. Successful? Oh yes, but maybe if we didn't have a complete clusterlove-in of a mental health system, he wouldn't have just had to suffer quietly, in the luxury he made for himself.

That you leap to the concept of luxury is absurd, your view overly binary, your utter lack of respect for another user who has done NOTHING to you is less than endearing. You like the laws of the jungle?... then you only get what you can protect; if rich people can't keep their wealth from the "poor", tough for them. The theft you abhore can't be your only ethic, or it's not an ethic at all.
You are acting like VA hospitals invented stupid. Plenty of civilian hospitals have scandals, and there are plenty of people who's lives get ruined by a bad doctor who have never worn a uniform a day in their life.

Of course, you know the magic trick to providing perfect health care to all our Vets without ever being embarrassed by a failure in your system, right? How about sharing with the rest of us? Or did I perhaps miss the "don't clean veteran's endoscopes" vote in Congress?

As for your grandfather, why didn't he seek helps from those awesome mental-health professionals that were providing such happy lives for us civilians? Oh! You mean you didn't notice how the mental health community, civilian or military, STILL doesn't really have a grip on many mental health issues.

My lack of respect from Turbo is that he tried to make this issue into a "Pay more taxes or you hate veterans" choice. Well I'm a veteran, so how about "let me keep more of my taxes or you hate veterans choice" for you?
 
Perspicacity
Well, a veteran does have more right than a welfare queen.

The veteran risked life and limb to provide an extremely valuable service to me, so I am OK paying for pension and medical care (similarly I am ok paying prices for consumer goods which include retirement and medical benefits for their workers). This will allow the military to continue to recruit more people and protect me and my family (similarly that allows companies to continue to recruit people to produce valuable consumer goods for me).

The welfare queen on the other hand never provided anything of value to me, so I don't know why I should pay her way at all.
Hence benefits like the GI Bill. I signed a contract when I joined, and so far the government has held up their part of the bargain. I'm sure some people do get shafted, but that happens in any system run by humans. It's why we have lawyers and such.
 
Hence benefits like the GI Bill. I signed a contract when I joined, and so far the government has held up their part of the bargain. I'm sure some people do get shafted, but that happens in any system run by humans. It's why we have lawyers and such.
Right, because when you're done fighting a war, your brain has been slapped around skull literally and figureatively, it's best to get right to fighting in the courtroom... against the federal government.

BRILLIANT.

Do you know the rate of TBIs in modern warfare, and what that means? You think that turning people out with this high quality (sarcasm) help leads to anything except a social burden elsewhere? Take a moment for the long view, instead of staring an inch ahead of where you plant your feet.
 
berkeman
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