Hillary vs Rice in the next presidential election, possible or not ?
I think it would be great to have a woman president.
Whether Rice or Clinton are the nominees depends upon the other candidates.
Not in 2008, Not in 2012. I'll bet my money on that.
Clinton is very possible as the Democratic nominee. She might even win the election.
I'd say her chances are less than 50% (especially if the elections were held today). The things that hurt her chances are being seen as an East Coast liberal and her association with Bill Clinton. The health care plan she and Bill Clinton tried to push through early in Bill Clinton's presidency tends to support that image, but the image probably doesn't match her more recent history. Being a Clinton makes her hated by a lot of Republicans, but you wonder how long hatred for Bill Clinton can really last. It's also not fair to associate her with Bill Clinton's sex scandals.
Two and a half years from now, the public might have a much more positive image of her than they do now, especially if Bill Clinton dies (heart trouble sidelined from doing much campaigning for Democrats in 2004).
The idea of Rice even running for nomination is ludicrous. Serving as Secretary of State is a positive, but she still has never held an elected office. Her role in an Iraq invasion based on an intelligence disaster (and that's being very generous) is more poisonous than Hillary's association with Bill Clinton.
Qualifications really don't matter to voters.
George Bush was a cokehead/alcoholic whose only qualifications were running businesses into the ground and owning a small percent of a baseball team. Then he was elected governor. Then he was elected President.
Ronald Reagan was an Actor. Then he was elected governor. Then he was elected President.
I think Rice would be a ridiculous idea for two main reasons. She's black, and she's a woman. It's wrong, but even if she was ****ing JFK encarnate, the country is still so racist and bigotted that any Democrat would beat her. Hell, run Eugene McCarthy against her and he'd have a fair shot.
Rice publically announced that she has no interest in running for presidential office anyway.
Agreed. This is just fantasy.
She also publicly announced that Iraq had nuclear weapons.
It certainly isn't out of the question (though Hillary is far more likely to be running than Rice is). Is America ready? We'll see...
Bush was Governor of Texas. Governor is probably the biggest stepping-stone to the Presidency.
Uh, no one has ever said any such thing. :uhh:
Before being Governor, he had no qualifications. Though, because his dad was President, and his whole family is obviously well connected, he got to be Governor. Then he got to be President, not because he got the most votes, or even legitimately won the electoral college; his family and professional connections stole Florida for him in 2000.
Not to get into a debate about Bush's legitimacy, I'm just saying that whether or not you're qualified to be President has almost nothing with whether or not you actually become President.
You're right, what she said was this,
"We do know that he [Saddam] is actively pursuing a nuclear weapon."
The Administration did such a good job convincing people Saddam was a threat, that in my mind, I actually had thought they straight out said it somewhere along the line. Remember that line about not waiting until Saddam's threat manifests itself in the form of a mushroom cloud? That stuff works a powerful image in the mind.
But the point I was making was that just because Rice says it, doesn't mean it's true.
Irrespective of qualification (and which of the last 10 presidents was truly "qualified" for the office?) russ is correct that being a governor is the best stepping-stone to the presidency. How you got to be governor is not of interest to the electorate, that you lasted at least one term without obviously falling on your face is.
And Bush did win the Electoral College. Yes there was dirty work at the crossroads in Florida but the letter of the law gave him that state, and with it, the constitutionally mandated majority in the electoral college.
True. I liked Reagan, but it was his interpretation of "Mr Smith Goes to Washington" at the New Hampshire debate that shot him into the lead. It was Clinton's talk show host image and his saxophone that made him seem so appealing to voters. Bush Jr has also existed more on personality (plus dragging his opponent through the mud) than substance.
That still rules out Rice as a viable candidate. She appears too cold. She expresses a lot of intellectual credibility, but she's not the kind of person that will rally the masses behind her.
You're probably right about race, as well. We live in a country where over 50% of the population deny evolution. It's naive to think the population has grown up enough that race doesn't matter. It might be naive to think a woman could win, regardless of race, but I think there's been too many women governors to say a woman has no chance of being elected.
:rofl: Women presidents... You guys make me laugh. What's next? Female doctors?
And how is that unique to Bush? Heck, the subject of this thread is a woman who held no political office before governor!
Look, like it or not, Bush has the only qualifications that are actually required: he's a born-citizen who is older than 35.
The 'Bush stole the election' thing has been done to death, but the second part, anyway, is correct - and it means that legitimacy and qualifications are two utterly unrelated concepts (as implied in sA's post). So it is just a distraction to bring it up.
You know, the best way not to get into a debate about something is not to start one. :grumpy:
Perhaps there is a new discussion in there on what it really means to be qualified? It's not an easy question, since it is one of the toughest jobs to prepare for that there is.
It's not, I said "Qualifications really don't matter to voters." In response to the fact that BobG said Rice couldn't be President because she hadn't held an electoral office.
You mean Clinton? Senator, that would be. She was actually like a policy guide to Bill, but saying that Clinton had no experience before being elected Senator just proves my point, voters don't care about qualifications.
All I'm saying is your political experience/qualifications don't count. I was noting with Bush that you can be both unqualified, and not even win the election legitimately, and still become President, showing even further that there are many things more important than qualifications if you wanna be President.
There are many ways to skin a cat...
There should be a thread in here somewhere about qualifications for politicians. It died pretty quickly though.
Unfortunately, there's a quite a bit of validity in your comments. There's still one qualification that's a prerequisite to bringing in monetary support for a campaign. A candidate usually has to have proven they can win.
If you haven't proven you can stand the heat of at least one campaign, it's hard get people to sink much into your campaign. It would be a complete unknown how Rice would respond to a situation like McCain faced in South Carolina in 2000, just as it was a complete unknown how Perot would react to having his family trashed in the 1992 election.
If basing just on qualifications, Hillary Clinton would probably rank about third or fourth among potential women Democratic candidates. Jennifer Granholm, governor of Michigan, would be a top contender except she's a naturalized citizen (she was born in Canada). Janet Napolitano, governor of Arizona, and Kathleen Sebelius, governor of Kansas, have qualifications even more important than Hillary's or Granholm's. Both are Democrats that won in Republican states. Napolitano's win is at least partly due to changing demographics in southwestern states like New Mexico, Arizona, and Colorado*, so Sebelius' success is probably more significant. Of course, the drawback is that Kansas is so insignificant in the Democratic world that half the Democratic Party leadership probably doesn't even know who she is.
In the past, the Republican Party has had a few women who probably could have competed for President, but they don't have any strong competitors right now. Liddy Dole would probably be the strongest choice based on record, but she's in her 70's (of course, John McCain will be older than Ronald Reagan was when he ran). The lack of credible Republican women candidates is probably the main reason Rice is even mentioned as a possible candidate.
*Off topic, but in the Colorado Front Range, directions have a special meaning. North is "mountains to the left", South is "mountains to the right", East and West is where all those damn liberals keep coming from.
Separate names with a comma.