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  1. Oct 8, 2004 #1
    What u think of feminism? Is it a complete ideology? Can it be a solution to the female problems (if there are)?
    hope to have a cool discussion...
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 8, 2004 #2
    I believe in all equal cival rights, between races, sexes, religious groups, etc... But I believe in equal rights, and now it seems like we are going past equal and giving more advantages to those that use to have lesser rights thus making it exactly the same as before except with a new repressed group. Now im not saying this is always the case, and generally its not, but it does happen sometimes.
    But one thing is true to say, is the only group you can insult with out being racist, sexist, etc. Is middle aged White Males
  4. Oct 8, 2004 #3
    Feminism is not a complete ideology, as it doesn't apply to all questions of value. In fact, I'm not even sure what you mean by "feminism"? Are you talking about Marxist Feminism, Liberal Feminism, Radical Feminsim, Seperatism, etc. There are variety of positions labelled "Feminism" that substantially disagree on the causes of and solutions to the problem of patriarchy.
  5. Oct 8, 2004 #4
    I believe the Feminism Struggle have gone to phase two. Before it was a Fight, now it's rather Understanding. But that has also begun to go both ways.
  6. Oct 9, 2004 #5


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    Feminism is a general term. Are you referring to the feminism of economic equality in the professional world? Or the feminism that deals with equal rights among a male dominated society?
  7. Oct 9, 2004 #6
    I think that alot has been done for equal rights especially in the constituition (for developed countries in general) and in the workplace as a whole. But everything has become more sublime. Its almost as if you've chopped down the whole tree of patriarchalism but the roots still remain intact. And who knows? the tree may soon grow back.

    I think the war has yet to be won on the cultural front, but some things which are that ambigious can hardly be protested over, like the potrayal of women in film, literature etc. Personally, I consider myself a pro-feminist, and I am a male. I think chilvary is one of the many cultural stuffs that make the fight for gender equality all the more difficult also. I just find it sick to see men acting like their some knight in shining armour.
  8. Oct 9, 2004 #7
    Feminists aim for equality (in general).

    Equality is absolutely absurd in human civilization.

    Males and females are not equal. Dogs and cats are not equal. They are two absolutely distinct genders.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2004
  9. Oct 9, 2004 #8

    Actually, it is your argument that is absurd. You are assuming that when feminists (and others) assert that all persons are equal, they are claiming that all persons are the same, or have the same capacities. But this assumption on your part is false. When feminists (and others) claim that all persons are equal, they mean that all persons ought to be treated with equal respect, and that one person's interests are not more important than anothers simply because that person is male (or white, or a U.S. citizen, or over 6' tall, etc.). The point is that moral considerability ought to be extended to all persons equally, and ought not be contingent on morally irrelevant properties such as sex, gender identity, ethnicity, race, religion, etc.
  10. Oct 9, 2004 #9

    My argument is not absurd. A majority of feminists (or a large amount) aim for the equality which i mentioned.


    The equality you talk of, i fully agree with.
  11. Oct 9, 2004 #10
    You claimed this:

    Males and females are not equal. Dogs and cats are not equal.

    And you used this claim as an example of why the feminists' pushing for equality is abusrd. Your view, apparently, is that since women and men are different, just as cats and dogs are different, it makes no sense for women to ask for equality. Your mistake is in thinking that feminists are asking to be treated just like men. Feminists are asking to be extended the respect, the benefits, and the consideration they are due in virtue of being persons. When the feminist claims that all persons are equal, she means that men and women are not different in any morally relevant sense. She does not mean that men and women have exactly the same non-moral properties.
  12. Oct 9, 2004 #11
    Once again, i am telling you that the majority of feminists do not have such a clear view of what they mean by equality.

    And once again, i state : The equality you talk of, i fully agree with.
  13. Oct 9, 2004 #12
    I don't think of feminism as any particular ideology, just a movement. Historically, it has always been a rather anarchistic leftist movement, but then, so has every other civil rights movement. What many of my friends today prefer to call simply a "progressive" movement, in contrast to "conservative" movements.

    Thus far feminism has given women the vote, substantially helped to close the wage gap, and successfully addressed violence against women. It may not be the ultimate solution to women's problems, but evidently it has a good track record thus far.
  14. Oct 13, 2004 #13
    i do not think a statement such as this contains validity or relevance considering

    1) it is unlikely you know what the majority of feminists say
    2) what the majority of feminists say doesn't necessarily determine what feminism says

    i think what is being confused here, as cogito pointed out, is the equating of a bizarre idea like

    men = women (which really doesn't make anymore sense than bush = reagan or your dog = cat)

    with the concept of say

    all people should have equal opportunities irrespective of race, colour, sex etc.

    this latter idea is fundamentally sensible and 'moral'.
    how it is actually applied may depend on the situation, but its application should in no way detract from the principle.

    in friendship,
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2004
  15. Oct 13, 2004 #14
    When Thomas Jefferson stated "All men are created equal" he was wrong. I'd say someone with downs syndrome, or a conjoined twin, wasn't actually created equal, rather they were dealt a less favorable hand. I mean no disrespect to anyone in either group, but I take things literally. There are SO MANY words in English people need to say what they mean literally. He should have said, "All PEOPLE shall be treated equally." There could be a different title for each different classification of feminist, too. The title "feminist" kind of sounds arrogant to me like women who want to be superior to men. I know it's not their true agenda but it rhymes with prejudice and ends the same as sexist and racist, and for me it triggers the image of a 223 lb. female gym teacher with a buzz cut.
    At this point, in the United States anyway, it seems there should be be no reason to be an "activist feminist" because females can do pretty much anything now (except certain military jobs) and so should pursue their dreams and become president of the U.S.A.
    And all should realize that females have advantages too. I would list them off but you know them. And if a girl wants to snub me and shoot me a dirty look for politely holding open the door, fine, it's her loss, and I can sit down just to whiz if I want to. It's a way of saying, "hey, the doors open" plus a chance to scope out your tantalizing tender tush. If you have a man you can at least say thank you, but you can still get other freebies too.
  16. Oct 14, 2004 #15
    he wasn't wrong. if you consider the matter deontologically, for instance, the idea is that all men (humans) are equal not by virtue of what they can or can't do, but by virtue that all are men (human).

    that is a rather strange conclusion to draw considering a feminist is someone who fights against sexism - which is far more prevalent against women than against men. a similar argument was also extended against martin luther king who fought racism, yet was thought by some to want superiority for black people or against gandhi who because he fought british domination was thought to want indians to be superior to the british.

    it is a nice idea for sure, but there seems to be a lot of work that still needs to be done, so we really do need feminists and as active as possible :D

    i don't think the essence of feminism is too concerned with holding doors, as much as just opening them. however, if it is a concern to you then you can always ask someone to hold the door open for you just to even things out :biggrin:

    in friendship,
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2004
  17. Oct 14, 2004 #16
    1984 George Orwell
  18. Oct 14, 2004 #17
    Yes. You are correct. That is the book. Well done. An icecream for you! :biggrin:
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2004
  19. Oct 18, 2004 #18
    feminism is the most stupid thing women did...
  20. Oct 18, 2004 #19


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    what a blatantly ignorant remark, especially after posting the "depression" thread. do you expect compassion with such a remark as this?

    women voting in the united states was a form of feminism. perhaps in your culture women are not regarded as important.

    considering that women make up 52% of the population, it is smart in utilizing their numbers when it comes to politics.
  21. Oct 18, 2004 #20
    unfortunately, there seems to be no mechanism for automatically ignoring string_theory's ignorant remark (but then this sort of thing shouldn't be ignored). personally, i think a statement such as his "feminism is the most stupid thing women did..." falls under wild and speculative theories and as such probably should be subjected to the same fate on physicsforums :D

    if there is anything that is really stupid, it is that feminism is still needed in this day and age. if people respected each other as people there would be no further need for it. as things still are though, it is very necessary because feminism continues to fight bigotry as it legislates justice, promotes equal opportunity, encourages assertiveness in some and increases understanding in others.

    in friendship,
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2004
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