Feynman vs the Flying Saucers

  • Thread starter zoobyshoe
  • Start date
  • #26
6,265
1,280
Ivan, you are still misreading the Feynman as a debunking of flying saucers, which it isn't. It shouldn't require any introduction from me for someone reading what he said to figure out what he's addressing, which is the "everyman's" reasoning in believing in flying saucers.

His point is more like this: if they were proved to exist tomorrow, the everyman who believes in them today would still have believed in them by flawed logic.

"Surely your joking, Mr Feynman" has alot of other examples of people believing things for the wrong reasons, from the Brazilian students he encountered who learned physics by rote memorization without the least understanding of what they were repeating back during exams, to the school board who approved the purchase of a book based on what the publisher told them it said: they hadn't even opened their copies of it, because if they had they would have found it contained blank pages.

You fault him for not addressing the much more rare people whom you consider looked at the phenomenon more critically and still believed it. The average guy isn't reading what that type of person has to say. He's picking up his info from "popular" sources, bits here and there, and not doing any exhaustive research of the history of sightings of unexplained aerial phenmonena.
--------
As far as trusting peoples interpretation of what they've seen, it is so obviously dumb to accept anyone's assessment that they saw an extraterrestrial craft when we all mispercieve all kinds of completely ordinary phenomena all the time; stuff we're completely familiar with and should be able to properly interpret. Think how often people read other people's posts too quickly and jump to the conclusion they've said something that they actually haven't. All the letters and words are perfectly legible, no unfamiliar words, and yet the reader can misread it. How much easier would it be to jump to the wrong conclusion about something that has a very novel and surprising appearance, and then leaves no traces to be examined after the fact? The sincerity of the person reporting the story is not the issue at all. They could pass 10 lie detector tests in a row with flying colors and still inaccurately interpret what they saw.

Your policy of believing the interpretation they put on it because they are sincere people is like asserting that honesty guarrantees accuracy.
 
  • #27
184
0
There's nothing wrong with distrusting people's judgement, i cant fault it logicaly. But this is where me and science walk our seperate ways, i do have a trust in people's judgement especially in circumstances where the same thing has been seen by seperate eye-witnesses. Of course people are going to get distances and size all muddled, thats a given, but if the object is moving over a long enough distance then you can track it, and from viewing it at different angles make a pretty good assesment of its shape.
I also generally dont see any reason why you should get the shape of a ufo wrong, or mistake a glider/areoplane for a ufo. People are used to seeing conventional craft all the time, so when people see something that isnt conventional its going to regesiter immediately.
Anyway all thats immaterial as everyone has a video camera these days, and with the handy zoom feature we've got some amazing footage of ufos:
To the extend where you can actually call them craft and start to put them into seperate catagorys relevant to their appearance.
As to wether or not these are of alien orgin or terrestrial i dont know that for sure, but mentally putting together all the evidence id lean towards these crafts being of a extraterrestrial origin.
Some reasons to consider, ufos have time and time again been filmed and reported following US military craft, nasa craft, and hovering over major US citys at very low altitudes.
Now i think we have it in our minds that these ufos generally are probably just US government black ops vehicles. That being the case why would they follow their own craft, in effect following them selves? And flying black ops craft over major citys, sometimes in broad daylight, is entirely inconsistant with how black operations are handled.
So from this i think we can gather that this isnt just the US military at work. But who else have the money and manpower to put into black operations that cant be disclosed to the public and i would imagine cost an arm and a leg seeing as they would be on the cutting edge of technology.
The only other nation that springs to mind is the chinese, although again you have a similar problem why would the chinese be chasing around US crafts when they wouldnt even dare fly a spy plane over US territory? It would be insane for any country to tail US miltary craft and fly at crazy altitudes over major citys. It makes no sense, and considering that the US is the only super power its practically sucidal.

What it comes down to is either a small number of developed countrys are buldiing ufos and playing chicken by flying in each other's no-fly zones and making unnecessary hostile manuvers, or these are extraterrestials. On balance i actually find the latter to be more plausable, and with abductions being reported all around the world, it would certainly tie up alot of loose ends. In fact at this moment in time its the only explanation that makes any sense to me.
 
  • #28
6,265
1,280
Overdose said:
i do have a trust in people's judgement especially in circumstances where the same thing has been seen by seperate eye-witnesses.
The group sighting phenomenon pushes the sighting from individual hallucination over into the realm of authentic "UFO", meaning that it makes you more confident there is some objective thing actually flying around that they're all seeing. True. On the other hand, I was personally a member of a crowd who had such a sighting, and while I know we could all say what it wasn't, no one in that crowd could accurately tell you what it was. (This was a crowd of people waiting outside a movie theater in the evening. We saw two yellow balls of light doing peculiar, non-ballistic maneuvers in the sky right above us. Then, one ball joined up with the other and they both just disappeared. Everyone in the crowd of about 30 people saw it because the first person who spotted the balls pointed them out to everyone. The whole crowd became silent and stared at them untill they disappeared.)
That being the case why would they follow their own craft, in effect following them selves?
You forget the phenomenon of inter-governmental competition and one-upsmanship. Each organization within the government is always trying to stake out and protect its own "territory". Just as local law enforcement gets its feathers ruffled when the FBI steps into something, so would the CIA always want to have an edge over the military. It was just such competition between the FBI and the military that lead to the misinterpreted "Hoover note": both the FBI and military wanted to be in charge of investigating any reports of downed flying disks. Neither found any that weren't hoaxes, but both were on alert about it since there was some slight evidence they might be of soviet origin.
And flying black ops craft over major citys, sometimes in broad daylight, is entirely inconsistant with how black operations are handled.
Really, I can't take your word for that. The most you or anyone could know about it is what has been leaked. Does anyone actually involved with black ops even know how all of them are handled?
The only other nation that springs to mind is the chinese...
Well, the French aren't too happy with us. Who knows if there isn't a secret sub-agency of the French military with crack technicians and the ability to funnel lots of money into their coffers? Alot of middle-eastern countries have huge amounts of money in the hands of their elite classes. Who might those people be funding? What about the former Soviet Union? What might they have developed, and who did they sell it to when things fell apart? It could a country that is a total surprise to everyone. Tesla came from a tiny country. What tiny country might there be out there with it's own Tesla who never emigrated and was made the head of their "special-craft" program? I could speculate forever about reasons it wouldn't have to be the Chinese.
It makes no sense, and considering that the US is the only super power its practically sucidal.
If you had a craft we couldn't shoot down, it wouldn't be suicidal at all. It would be alot of fun.
What it comes down to is either a small number of developed countrys are buldiing ufos and playing chicken by flying in each other's no-fly zones and making unnecessary hostile manuvers, or these are extraterrestials.
Why extraterrestrials? Why not beings from another dimension that coexists with ours right here on earth? Why not beings from a civilations that has existed from time immemorial at the deepest depths of the world's oceans? Why not beings who live in a remarkable system of subterranian caverns who can flawlessly hide the entances and exits? The main reason we say "extraterrestrials" is simply because that's the idea that has gained currency. It started when they pointed a telescope at Mars and speculated the canals might have been made by an intelligent civilization. H.G. Wells took that idea and wrote "War of the Worlds", which planted the notion in people's minds that intelligent beings from other planets might have the technology to reach earth. In other words: that particular idea came to western civilization straight from fiction. Now, it's the first thing that pops into people's minds.
On balance i actually find the latter to be more plausable, and with abductions being reported all around the world, it would certainly tie up alot of loose ends. In fact at this moment in time its the only explanation that makes any sense to me.
Abductions are something else entirely. Persinger has recreated them in his lab by applying EM fields to peoples heads. I have personally been "abducted" during an attack of the neurological sleep disorder known as "sleep paralysis" (not by aliens, but by two wierd and unpleasant guys), people who experience complex-partial seizures sometimes feel they've been removed from their body by vague, menacing beings, and taken to unfamiliar environments.

The "aliens" of alien abductions, have a distictly non-ordinary ability to enter peoples homes without recourse to doors and windows, and to remove people by the same method, whatever that is. The kinds of creatures reported in these stories don't have any need of physical craft. I personally think the link between abductions and UFO sightings is a false connection.
 
  • #29
Gza
437
0
I have banged around alot in my life
Feynman's a peeyimp. :tongue2:
 

Related Threads on Feynman vs the Flying Saucers

  • Last Post
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • Last Post
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
10
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • Last Post
Replies
17
Views
3K
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • Last Post
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • Last Post
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • Last Post
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • Last Post
Replies
2
Views
4K
Top