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News Financial Aid to Israel

  1. Jun 7, 2010 #1
    So in the other thread which has now been locked for being dragged off topic continuously (I guess it was easier to just keep deleting posts and then lock it altogether than to ask people to stop posting that particular information) I've decided to start a new thread.

    Specifically dealing with US aid to Israel.

    Here's the latest report I can find:
    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf
    Printed in December.

    The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs uses this report to generate a table of values making it easier to go through the data but Evo has said this is not a mainstream source, so I'm not going to bother posting it anyone interested can look it up themselves.

    From the usaid.gov website I found this report from 1994:
    http://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/PCAAA469.pdf
    The summary states:
    At this time they were receiving around 1.2 billion dollars per year for Economic Grants since 1985.

    However, in recent times, Israels economy has been thriving, in my opinion, and they have been receiving less, and less money from USA for their Economy. Nearly 100% of loans/grants were given to Israel for military purposes. This is usually done through 'buying credits' for American equipment/technology. (in 2008 0$ were given in Economic loans/grants)

    So this begs the question, if the Israeli economy is now self-sufficient and can run without so much foreign aid why does America continue to pour the largest amount of foreign aid it gives into Israels military? Would Israel be able to continue being a powerful military prescence in the Middle East without the American support? Does this support in Israeli military from the American government show that America supports Israeli military policies?
    I guess the most important question is: Does it seem to you like America is using Israel as an 'outpost' in the Middle East and is this a negative thing?(especially taking into account the recent boarding of merchant ships... which in my mind were completely legal and authorized but most developed nations disagree with that)

    I can think of many more questions but those are just a few to start a discussion... hopefully one which doesn't end up locked. If my sources aren't good enough for the forums then I truly do not know what is good enough to be cited here.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Jun 7, 2010 #2
    My question to you is: military hard ware is expensive - extremely expensive. How does the military funding we've given them compare to some other metric, like their GDP. This will give you a better indication of the relative magnitude of military/civilian spending.

    Lobbyists.

    I have to argue, no. Google Isreali Army. You will see Apache helicopters, F-16s, M-16s, Humvee's, and many other made in USA products.

    Absolutely, if you have moral and legal objections to another countries actions, you don't help arm them (and exclusively militarily, since '08 according to your data) for the past 25 years.

    Yes, the point of Israel is not like that of Iraq, which was to show democracy can work, and hopefully spread in the region. Instead, Israel is used effectively as a proxy military base for the United States.

    The question is, why isn't the United States actively talking with other Arab countries, particularly Syria, who reached out the the US but got a cold back from the Bush Administration. Blind support of Israel is not a silver bullet that will solve all the problems of the Middle East.

    The better question is, what is the US and Israel doing to get rid of the corruption in Palestine (none). Until you set up a stable internal workings in Palestine, you're never going to have any chance of peace. You can dump all the US's money into Israel and you still wont solve anything.
     
  4. Jun 7, 2010 #3

    Evo

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    I'm going to tentatively allow this since obviously talking about it without knowing the extent of the military and strategic benefits the US gets makes the thread rather pointless. Was there some point? I didn't see one.

    Look up US aid to Gaza. And they are not an ally.
     
  5. Jun 7, 2010 #4
    The military financial aid to Israel is a blessing to the US military-industrial complex more than it is to Israel's army. That way the armament/defense companies in the US are kept more busy, and competing for contracts instead of falling apart because of lack of demand. All the goods produced, the high-tech military hardware has to be unloaded somewhere, and tested in the field, so giving it away to a really trusted ally is beneficial for the US.

    It is also clear that Israel is systematically annexing (legally and illegally) Palestinian property. Similar situation occurs in Tibet when the Han Chinese are moving in the region by the boatloads. Given enough time of maintaining the status quo, perhaps in another generation they will have more bargaining chips when claiming lands because the ingenious population became a minority.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2010
  6. Jun 7, 2010 #5

    Office_Shredder

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    a) How can you possibly expect Israel to gain a majority in the Gaza strip when they forcibly removed all the settlers there?

    b) What does this have to do with financial aid to Israel? If the answer to this is nothing, please don't reply (no need to derail yet another thread)


    A lot of countries use lots of USA made products. Most places don't have the technology and manufacturing base to make all their own equipment
     
  7. Jun 7, 2010 #6
    @Cyrus. I typed up a response to what you wrote but when I clicked post the thread was no longer here, so I lost the post. :rofl:.

    Anyways I went and looked up Israels GDP per capita and PPP they are just under 30k and 214billion. I think this is decent and when you look at the growth going on it makes it seem even more 'stable' (considering foreign aid into the economy went to 0 as my other source states.)

    I got this data from the IMF datasets from April 2010. I'd post the source but I'm on another computer and I'm not so sure how to post the data since it's done in a graph format with no URL.

    I'm not sure what this data means relative to the over 2 billion$ in foreign US aid to Israels military.

    I had come to similar conclusions as you except it just brought a more pressing question. Would America use this foreign aid to try and control Israeli policy or have they already??? The total amount of loans/grants given to Israel accounts for 44% of it's GDP... most of it though was 'waived' (the vast majority).

    I wonder how long Israel has to continue being USAs 'puppet' government/military outpost in the middle east. Will it's recent actions put strain on the national relations between the countries? I mean I know that America comes out and 'condemns' Israeli actions calling for increases in aid and the works but will they actually take action against Israel?
     
  8. Jun 7, 2010 #7
    Evo have you even been reading the sources provided?
     
  9. Jun 8, 2010 #8
    Precisely.
     
  10. Jun 8, 2010 #9
    China supports North Korea for same reason as US supports Israel, regional interests IMO.
     
  11. Jun 8, 2010 #10
    USA financial aid to Israel is based on credit (not actually money [something like: win points get prizes]) that Israel uses to buy military equipment from the USA.
    This aid was a part of the peace agreements between Israel and Egypt negotiated by the USA in 1979. (See "Camp David Accords").
    (Egypt granted it's own financial aid by the USA)

    Israel also has "less public" agreements with the USA on the topic of military developments.
    (In fashion of: Israel develops, USA pays and gets the technology too)
    (In some cases USA, gives us the red light, like in the Lavi project)

    To summarize things informally:
    Russian political and strategical grip is in form of weak Arabic countries in the middle east.
    USA has the same kind of grip in form of the strongest country in the middle east, Israel.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAI_Lavi#Results_of_development
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_David_Accords#Terms_of_the_agreements
    Oh, these sources are little bit funny, but most of formal sources are only Hebrew (can't find them in English).
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2010
  12. Jun 8, 2010 #11
    estro, if you want to you can head here:

    http://translate.google.com/#

    And past the source of the webpage that you wish to translate or the section of text or whatever.
     
  13. Jun 8, 2010 #12
    Israel is in a strategic geographic position, and America would like to have an ally next to Iran etc. Going further you might say that America has a military presence by proxy through the state of Israel.
     
  14. Jun 8, 2010 #13

    turbo

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    Remember that whatever level of monetary aid the US gives Israel, it is money borrowed by the US, and we are paying interest on the debt. Also, financial aid to Israel (unlike to other countries) is given in a lump sum instead of in structured payments throughout the fiscal year, meaning that the US forgoes all the interest that might have accrued.
     
  15. Jun 8, 2010 #14
    To follow up on the first part of my previous post, if US cuts military aid to Israel, then Israel could buy military hardware from other countries - the Euro-zone, Russia perhaps or any lowest bidder. But in the end the US will lose out on stimulating its military-industry which is absolutely crucial in keeping the US military on the cutting edge, and will also lose out on projecting a significant military power at the boundary of middle east which is of great strategic importance for the US.

    When it comes to national interests which is a priority for every country, or internal affairs then no.
     
  16. Jun 8, 2010 #15

    Office_Shredder

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    Something I only just thought of... as an example, how much money was it worth for Israel to blow up whatever they blew up in Syria back in 2007? That's essentially unanswerable because none of us know the implications of that attack.
     
  17. Jun 8, 2010 #16
    How good is the Mossad information they provide?

    Have we ever used this as a base, in Gulf War I or II, or Afghanistan? Not really.

    While also blowing up half an apartment building filled with civilians?

    I find it highly unlikely they will try to attack Iran, given the reach Iran has with its missile system.

    We could build partnerships with the other Arab countries, so we don't need to back Israel.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2010
  18. Jun 8, 2010 #17

    Evo

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    I think it's because Israel has proven that they can be trusted not to take what we have helped them develop and not use it against us.
     
  19. Jun 8, 2010 #18
  20. Jun 8, 2010 #19

    Evo

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  21. Jun 8, 2010 #20
    The point is that the guy wasn't caught because Israel turned him to US officials in when he tried to pass them information. That doesn't speak well for them.

    nRbpzFKsPYg&feature=related[/youtub...or us, as an American, thanks, but no thanks.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2010
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