Finding Geodesics What I wish to understand, is how to solve

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In summary, the conversation discusses finding geodesics using a given metric and the use of the E-L equations. There is confusion about what the Lagrangian depends on and how to continue with the calculations. One participant suggests using a simpler Lagrangian to avoid dealing with the square root.
  • #1
noamriemer
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Finding Geodesics


What I wish to understand, is how to solve this one:
given this metric:
[itex] ds^2= \frac {dt^2} {t^2}- \frac{dx^2} {t^2} [/itex]
I have to calculate the geodesics.

[itex] S=\int{ \frac {d} {d\lambda} \sqrt{\frac {1} {t^2} \frac {dt^2} {d\lambda^2}- \frac{1} {t^2} \frac {dx^2} {d\lambda^2}}} [/itex]

But [itex] \lambda [/itex] here, is any parameter I choose. Therefore, L does not depend on it (right? )
So now I want to use E-L equations:

[itex] \frac {d}{dλ}\frac {∂L}{∂\dot t}=\frac {\partial L} {∂t},
\frac {d} {dλ}\frac {∂L} {∂\dot x} =\frac {\partial L} {∂x} [/itex]

When [itex] \dot t [/itex] refers to [itex] \frac {dt} {d\lambda} [/itex] etc.
But here I get confused:
What does L depend on?
I'll continue my solution:

[itex]\frac {d} {dλ} 0.5 ({{\frac {{\dot t}^2} {t^2}-\frac {{\dot x}^2} {t^2}}})^{-0.5} 2 \frac {\dot t} {t^2}= \frac {\partial L} {\partial x} [/itex]

As I stated, L does not depend on lambda, and so:

[itex] \frac {d} {d\lambda} {[\frac {\dot t} {t^2}]}^2 = \frac {{\dot t}^2-{\dot x}^2} {t^3} [/itex]
So how am I supposed to derive this? Do I add another dot?
[itex] \frac {d} {d\lambda} \dot t = \ddot t [/itex] ? and do I refer to it as an operator? Meaning- [itex] \ddot t = {\dot t}^2? [/itex]

How do I continue? These calculations on classical mechanics were so trivial to me- but for some reason I get lost in here...
Thank you!
 
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  • #2


i'm sorry I'm having problems making sense of this. you seem to be wanting arc length depending on an internal parameter time(lamba) and space(lamba), but then you will need to integrate with respect to d(lamba), not d/d(lamba) for it to remain arc length. i assume if either S is a total integral or S is conserved under variation,
d/d(lamba)S=0. now can you commute lamba variation and integration?
 
  • #3


The easiest Lagrangian to use would be [itex]L=g_{\alpha \beta }\frac{dx^\alpha }{d\lambda }\frac{dx^\beta }{d\lambda }[/itex]. Then you don't have to deal with the annoying square root.
 
  • #4


xaos said:
i'm sorry I'm having problems making sense of this. you seem to be wanting arc length depending on an internal parameter time(lamba) and space(lamba), but then you will need to integrate with respect to d(lamba), not d/d(lamba) for it to remain arc length. i assume if either S is a total integral or S is conserved under variation,
d/d(lamba)S=0. now can you commute lamba variation and integration?

Hi... I did not understand what you meant. I integrate with respect to lambda... not d/d(lambda) ...
Thank you
 
  • #5


elfmotat said:
The easiest Lagrangian to use would be [itex]L=g_{\alpha \beta }\frac{dx^\alpha }{d\lambda }\frac{dx^\beta }{d\lambda }[/itex]. Then you don't have to deal with the annoying square root.

Thank you. I would use that.
 

1. What are geodesics and why are they important in science?

Geodesics are the shortest or longest paths between two points on a curved surface. They are important in science because they help us understand the fundamental properties of space and time in the universe, as well as being used in practical applications such as navigation and mapping.

2. How do geodesics differ from straight lines?

Geodesics may appear to be curved, but they are actually the shortest or longest distance between two points on a curved surface. In contrast, straight lines are the shortest distance between two points on a flat surface.

3. What methods are used to find geodesics?

There are various mathematical methods used to find geodesics, including differential geometry, calculus of variations, and geodesic equations. These methods take into account the curvature of the surface and the properties of the geodesic, such as its length and direction.

4. Can geodesics be found on any surface?

Yes, geodesics can be found on any surface, regardless of its shape or curvature. However, the methods used to find geodesics may vary depending on the surface's properties.

5. How can understanding geodesics help us in everyday life?

Understanding geodesics can help us in everyday life by allowing us to navigate more efficiently and accurately, as well as helping us make sense of the physical world around us. For example, understanding geodesics can help us understand the paths of objects in motion, from the movement of planets to the flight of a ball in sports.

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