Flat Taxes and Corporate Perks Leading to an Unfair Distribution of Wealth?

[ray b]

While I think it's unfair that people who make more money have to pay larger percentages in taxes I couldn't even begin to fathom what it would take to create a balanced workable tax system.

you are falling into the NEO-CON LIE [they love BIG LIES]
rates and what is really paid are two very very different things
and remember most of the rich's net worth is never taxed
there are many ways to do this
credits, corp's perks, loopholes, free stuff like skyboxes and travel, expence accounts ect

take Bill Gates he makes BILLIONS of untaxed riches and pays a very very small % of his NET WORTH to the government in any form of tax
I did his REAL TAX RATE vs his increase in NET WORTH
it came to less then
0.25% vs my workers rate of over 25%
and that was BEFORE the BuSh2 tax cuts.
and the NEO-CONs claim the RICH are over TAXED , THATS A BIG LIE

btw with BuSh2's planned end to the death tax will result in allmost NONE of Bill Gates BILLIONS ever being TAXED

 

[1123581321]

no

All i can say

Fibonacci

 

[wasteofo2]

You know, Russia has a flat tax of 13%. Lots of other countries, such as Latvia, and Ukraine, along with many other Eastern European nations, have a flat tax as well. I don't know all that much about Eastern Europe, but as far as I do know, they're not exactly doing fantastically Economically, especially when compared to the Progressively taxed West. I've heard of corporations outsourcing to India and East Asia for cheap labor, but I've never heard of a company leaving America or Western Europe for the business-friendly environment created in Eastern Europe and Russia by their flat taxes.

The Economist recently (an issue or two ago) had an article all about why a flat-tax would be great, in which they named off nearly every country that has a flat tax. It was kinda odd to read something touting the merits of a flat tax, in which it said things like, "Look how well it worked for Estonia and Bosnia."

 

[russ_watters]

you are falling into the NEO-CON LIE [they love BIG LIES]
rates and what is really paid are two very very different things
and remember most of the rich's net worth is never taxed...

Lie? Umm -- YOUR net worth isn't taxed either.

take Bill Gates he makes BILLIONS of untaxed riches...

Most of Bill Gates's spending money comes from stock options, which are taxed - at the standard rate.

I did his REAL TAX RATE vs his increase in NET WORTH
it came to less then
0.25% vs my workers rate of over 25%

Why don't you compare apples and gravel? It would make more sense.

no

All i can say

Fibonacci

Yeah, that's probably all that needed to be said. Some things I just can't let go, though.

 

[wasteofo2]

As others have pointed out, corporate taxes are simply expenses passed on to the consumer. Taxing them more isn't going to help anybody that buys from them.

If you look at it from a different perspective, consumption taxes and income taxes on workers are expenses on consumers which passed onto producers by lower demand for products. If you look at it from that perspective, it's logical to conclude that the more progressive a tax system is, the better off corporations will be, since they're paying for most of the government's budget and the consumers that fund the corporations are relatively free of restrictive tax burdens and can spend even more money on corporate goods and services.

 

[Loren Booda]

How much have accountants to lose with a flat tax?

 

[loseyourname]

If you look at it from a different perspective, consumption taxes and income taxes on workers are expenses on consumers which passed onto producers by lower demand for products. If you look at it from that perspective, it's logical to conclude that the more progressive a tax system is, the better off corporations will be, since they're paying for most of the government's budget and the consumers that fund the corporations are relatively free of restrictive tax burdens and can spend even more money on corporate goods and services.

It is looked at that way in certain contexts. What you say is true mostly of companies that sell luxury goods. Small consumer disposables such as food and toilet paper and such aren't likely to be consumed at a higher rate just because people have more money to spend. They're going to spend it on designer clothes and better car stereos.

 

[wasteofo2]

It is looked at that way in certain contexts. What you say is true mostly of companies that sell luxury goods. Small consumer disposables such as food and toilet paper and such aren't likely to be consumed at a higher rate just because people have more money to spend. They're going to spend it on designer clothes and better car stereos.

How do you define luxury goods? Are CD's and DVD's luxury goods? I'd buy a lot more of those if I was relieved of my tax burden. I'd also buy a lot more gasoline, concert ticketts and instruments, plus I'd patronize things like restaurants and movie theaters way more often.

 

[loseyourname]

How do you define luxury goods? Are CD's and DVD's luxury goods? I'd buy a lot more of those if I was relieved of my tax burden. I'd also buy a lot more gasoline, concert ticketts and instruments, plus I'd patronize things like restaurants and movie theaters way more often.

Other than gasoline, those are all luxury goods. Basic groceries aren't, but I'll assume that you don't do any grocery shopping and you mean eating out. The other thing about the progressive tax helping companies is that a progressive tax doesn't just ease the load on the average consumer, it increases the load on the wealthiest consumers, and they are the ones buying the most luxury goods. Most lower-middle class people are just going to pay off their credit cards or send their children to better schools without having to take out huge loans, which isn't necessarily going to drive the economy. To be honest, this is probably about the only reason I don't really like having a consumer driven economy. I'd prefer to see savings and investment promoted, myself.

 

[ray b]

Lie? Umm -- YOUR net worth isn't taxed either.



Most of Bill Gates's spending money comes from stock options, which are taxed - at the standard rate. Why don't you compare apples and gravel? It would make more sense.

yes my net worth is not taxed BUT all my income is
but NO it more like comparing pennys and hundred dollar bills with the pennys paying full rate taxes and the hundreds getting a free ride on the pennys taxes
and I get very few perks
Bill Gates gets tax free Limo's, tax free lunch and Dinners, tax free travel,
tax free sports and entertenment all paid by the CORP as do most other CORP officers at major and minor CORPs untaxed to the person and a tax write off to the biz

then there's the major FREEBE stock options like free money untax intill sale
but in Bill Gates case not options but created by him for him as the founder of MS CORP or TOTALY FREE to him and worth many BILLIONS

under current tax laws and BuSh2's plan to kill the death tax most of Bill Gates BILLIONS will never EVER be taxed at all unless sold and then at a low and falling capital gains rate NOT the same RATES I PAY

a FLAT TAX ON NET WORTH might be FAIR
but few hope for a fair tax deal from the GOP neo-CONs

anyway the BIG LIE is working
just like in the Iraq War
why tell the truth
when you can use a BIG LIE

look at the real numbers
do the math
THE RICH ARE NOT AND NEVER HAVE PAID FULL RATE TAXES
on all they get
workers DO
and the RICH ARE NOT OVER TAXED
under taxed is more like it
IF you look at all they REALY GET

 

[plus]

You know, Russia has a flat tax of 13%. Lots of other countries, such as Latvia, and Ukraine, along with many other Eastern European nations, have a flat tax as well. I don't know all that much about Eastern Europe, but as far as I do know, they're not exactly doing fantastically Economically, especially when compared to the Progressively taxed West. I've heard of corporations outsourcing to India and East Asia for cheap labor, but I've never heard of a company leaving America or Western Europe for the business-friendly environment created in Eastern Europe and Russia by their flat taxes.

The Economist recently (an issue or two ago) had an article all about why a flat-tax would be great, in which they named off nearly every country that has a flat tax. It was kinda odd to read something touting the merits of a flat tax, in which it said things like, "Look how well it worked for Estonia and Bosnia."

The new countries in the EU adopted the flat tax rate in order to give motivation to the middle classes to succeed and bring wealth to their countries.
Germany is now suffering heavily by companies relocating in the new member countries of the EU. Most of the new member states are enjoying an increase in wealth and higher standards of living. Estonia is a small country (about 1.5 million) so there are not going to be able to be many companies relocating there, but its wealth has increased. In case you did not notice, under this pressure, germany has changed from advocating EU wide tax rates, to announcing a decrease in corporate tax rates itself.
Eastern Europe is not as poor as India or china, so companies should relocate there for the political stability and infrastructure provided by the EU rather than 1 cent an hour labour. It should also be noted that while India is enjoying a population boom, the populations of east europe and china are stagnating.

 

[loseyourname]

yes my net worth is not taxed BUT all my income is

Then get a better tax preparer. I'm sure you can deduct something. I don't work right now, but even when I did, I hadn't paid any taxes for years because I was a student paying my own way. Are you going to call me out for riding on the backs of the hundreds?

Bill Gates gets tax free Limo's, tax free lunch and Dinners, tax free travel, tax free sports and entertenment all paid by the CORP as do most other CORP officers at major and minor CORPs untaxed to the person and a tax write off to the biz

Come on, man. I got perks at a lesser rate when I was a visual merchandiser, and why not? I was making business trips. Should I have been taxed because my hotel room and gas was paid for? What about when my aunt takes me to Dodger games using the season tickets that her company gives to employees when they are not needed for business? I'm sure that you realize all of these things are paid for, right? I mean hell, if you work full-time, you get paid to take a vacation for two weeks out of every year. Should you be taxed for that?

then there's the major FREEBE stock options like free money untax intill sale but in Bill Gates case not options but created by him for him as the founder of MS CORP or TOTALY FREE to him and worth many BILLIONS

Do you get taxed because your house has appreciated in value? What about classic cars you might own? Rare records? Baseball cards? Not until you sell them, right?

 

[ray b]

well I do my own taxes
and have used income avg, tax credits, and others in the past
but with no morgage, kids grown, no medical bills ect
I am stuck paying full rates without any breaks

my vacation pay is taxed, and everything I spend is paid with TAXED funds
UNLIKE the favored CORP officers who get their stuff TAX FREE
sure it is paid for by the CORP but untaxed to the person and a tax write off for the CORP

btw gifts are TAXABLE and S/B reported,[ like free tickets ]
true few do, but is it wise to boast about it?

local taxes sure do go up as value of home does EVERY YEAR
but the point was NOT how unfair taxes are collected NOW
but a true flat tax SHOULD be on ALL WEALTH INCREASES
not just on pay or once again most of the rich's increases are UNTAXED
and more of the workers IS TAXED

 

[russ_watters]

then there's the major FREEBE stock options like free money untax intill sale
but in Bill Gates case not options but created by him for him as the founder of MS CORP or TOTALY FREE to him and worth many BILLIONS.

Um, if its not taxed until its sale, how is it free money? Its not like he can spend it.

Lots of companies give stock options to lots of people. A buddy of mine was (until 2 years ago) a $50,000 a year salaried engineer at Unisys and he got stock options too. Gates got more, but there is a pretty damn good reason for that...

And yeah, perks: I just got a free trip to Mexico. I guess I should pay taxes on the $3000 or so in travel expenses my company paid...