# Flu Vaccine

• Medical
It was raining cats and dogs the day the free flu shots were being given out here (one of my friends organizes it and donations to local charities are collected)... so I instead went and got my flu shot at Target for ~$25. I thought it would be important to get it this year since I'm nursing little E, who at 2-3 months is too young to get it herself. I'm surprised there's no mention of "breastfeeding mothers" in the list of "who should get the flu vaccine" lists. I don't normally get sick, but two years ago I got the flu so bad I was hospitalized for half a week (my pancreas had swollen as a result of dehydration/vomiting... they were actually afraid I had pancreatitis, but the CAT was negative for that). Even so, if it was just me (and a baby wasn't in the house), I'd be like Moonbear and just take my chances. As an aside, a nurse in our school system died from a suspected case of H1N1 (she was 59 and diabetic, therefore at a higher risk of complications from normal flus... but gee, you should have seen the fear-mongering that brought on!). Actually this was, for us, rather sad, since she served at our son P's school the previous year, and we'd seen her in one of our farmer's markets shortly before the school year started... right after little E was born, so P was in fine form showing off his baby sis. It was raining cats and dogs the day the free flu shots were being given out here (one of my friends organizes it and donations to local charities are collected)... so I instead went and got my flu shot at Target for ~$25. I thought it would be important to get it this year since I'm nursing little E, who at 2-3 months is too young to get it herself. I'm surprised there's no mention of "breastfeeding mothers" in the list of "who should get the flu vaccine" lists.

I don't normally get sick, but two years ago I got the flu so bad I was hospitalized for half a week (my pancreas had swollen as a result of dehydration/vomiting... they were actually afraid I had pancreatitis, but the CAT was negative for that). Even so, if it was just me (and a baby wasn't in the house), I'd be like Moonbear and just take my chances.

As an aside, a nurse in our school system died from a suspected case of H1N1 (she was 59 and diabetic, therefore at a higher risk of complications from normal flus... but gee, you should have seen the fear-mongering that brought on!). Actually this was, for us, rather sad, since she served at our son P's school the previous year, and we'd seen her in one of our farmer's markets shortly before the school year started... right after little E was born, so P was in fine form showing off his baby sis.

Actually I think you would be covered in the list of those who should get it. I am pretty sure the CDC recommended that anyone who is in contact with or lives with anyone under 2 should get the vaccine.

I wasn't directing anything at you I just made a simple joke, don't take my joke too seriously.

The evidence suggests otherwise. And, I don't take you too seriously.

The lastest information from the World Heath Organization - DISEASE OUTBREAKS, 2 October 2009 Pandemic (H1N1) 2009 - update 68 is noted on the upper left of this website http://www.who.int/csr/alertresponse/en/ . If you click it on you will be directed over to this website: http://www.who.int/csr/don/2009_10_02/en/index.html , which states the following:

Pandemic (H1N1) 2009 - update 68
Weekly update

As of 27 September 2009, worldwide there have been more than 340,000 laboratory confirmed cases of pandemic influenza H1N1 2009 and over 4100 deaths reported to WHO.

As many countries have stopped counting individual cases, particularly of milder illness, the case count is significantly lower than the actually number of cases that have occurred. WHO is actively monitoring the progress of the pandemic through frequent consultations with the WHO Regional Offices and member states and through monitoring of multiple sources of data.

Transmission of influenza virus and rates of influenza-like-illness (ILI) continue to increase in the temperate regions of the northern hemisphere. In North America, influenza transmission is geographically widespread and continues to increase. Levels of ILI have continued to increase and remain above the seasonal baseline for the past 4 weeks in most regions of the United States. In Mexico, a high intensity of respiratory diseases has been reported for two consecutive weeks (week 37 - 38), with large increases in cases being reported in the north and northwest of the country. In Europe and Central and Western Asia, although overall influenza activity remains low an increase in transmission has been noted in a number of countries and continues to intensify in others. Rates of influenza-like-illness continue to be above baseline levels in Ireland, parts of the United Kingdom (Northern Ireland), Israel, and France; in addition, more than 10 other countries in the region have reported geographically localized spread of influenza. In Japan, influenza activity has continued to increase above the seasonal epidemic threshold since week 33. These increases in ILI activity have been accompanied by increases in laboratory isolations of pandemic influenza H1N1 2009 in most of these areas.

In the tropical regions of the Americas and Asia, influenza transmission remains active but the trends in respiratory diseases activity are mixed. Although respiratory disease activity is geographically regional to widespread throughout the tropical region of the Americas, many countries have been recently reporting a declining trend (Bolivia, Brazil, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Panama, Paraguay, Venezuela), while others recently reported an increasing trend (Columbia and Cuba). In tropical regions of Asia, there continues to be an increasing trend in respiratory diseases in parts of India and in Cambodia, while other countries in the Southeast Asia have been recently reporting declining transmission.

In the temperate regions of the southern hemisphere, influenza transmission has largely returned to baseline (Chile, Argentina, and New Zealand) or has declined substantially (Australia and South Africa).

All pandemic H1N1 2009 influenza viruses analyzed to date have been antigenically and genetically similar to A/California/7/2009-like pandemic H1N1 2009 virus. See below for a detailed laboratory surveillance update.[snip][Please review the information directly from the url (link)I provided. Thank you.]

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As of 27 September 2009, worldwide there have been more than 340,000 laboratory confirmed cases of pandemic influenza H1N1 2009 and over 4100 deaths reported to WHO.

See, it's just media hype.

I wouldn't call it media hype that 4,100 people have died from the "new" 2009 H1N1 flu! And that more people from 335,900 may also, along with people who may still get it.

I think it is important to read from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Infection:

Seasonal Influenza (Flu)
How effective is the seasonal flu vaccine?
How well the seasonal flu vaccine works depends on how well the match is between the seasonal influenza (flu) vaccine and the types of seasonal flu viruses that are circulating that year. Scientists try to predict what strains (types) of flu viruses are most likely to spread and cause illness each year to put into the vaccine. Past studies have shown in years when the vaccine viruses and circulating viruses are well-matched, the vaccine can reduce the chances of getting the flu by 70% to 90% in healthy adults. The vaccine may be somewhat less effective in elderly persons and very young children, but vaccination can still prevent serious complications from the flu.

In healthy adults younger than 65 years of age, the flu vaccine can also prevent lost work days, and keep you from having to see the doctor or using unnecessary antibiotics.

Is the seasonal flu vaccine effective against all types of flu and cold viruses?
The seasonal flu vaccine is your best protection against seasonal flu viruses. However, this year there is a new and very different flu virus spreading worldwide among people called 2009 H1N1 flu. The seasonal flu vaccine will not provide protection against 2009 H1N1 influenza. A 2009 H1N1 vaccine is currently in production. The 2009 H1N1 vaccine is not intended to replace the seasonal flu vaccine – it is intended to be used along-side seasonal flu vaccine.

The seasonal flu vaccine also does not provide protection against non-flu viruses that can cause colds and other respiratory illnesses. It can sometimes be hard to tell the difference between a cold and the flu based on symptoms alone.

The seasonal flu vaccine won't protect you from cold or flu viruses that are already in your body when you get a seasonal flu vaccine. The seasonal flu vaccine takes about two weeks to provide protection from the flu, and it's your best protection to prevent the most common types of flu this season.

Why do I need to get a seasonal flu vaccine every year?

Flu viruses change from year to year, which means two things. First, you can get the flu more than once during your lifetime. The immunity (natural protection that develops against a disease after a person has had that disease) that is built up from having the flu caused by one flu virus strain doesn't always provide protection against newer strains of the flu. Second, a seasonal flu vaccine made against flu viruses going around last year may not protect against the newer viruses. That is why the flu vaccine is updated to include current viruses every year.

Because of these reasons, a new seasonal flu vaccine is needed each year.

Does getting a seasonal flu vaccine early in the season mean that I will not be protected later in the season?
Flu vaccination provides protection against the influenza strains contained in the vaccine that will last for the whole season. Vaccination can begin as soon as vaccine is available. Studies do not show a benefit of receiving more than one dose of vaccine during a flu season, even among elderly persons with weakened immune systems.

Does the seasonal flu vaccine work the same for everyone?
The seasonal flu vaccine is the single best way to prevent seasonal flu, and vaccination is the main tool used to protect people from seasonal influenza. A number of studies have shown that the seasonal flu vaccine works, but how well the vaccine works can change from year to year and vary among different groups of people. The ability of the seasonal flu vaccine to protect a person depends on at least two things: 1) the age and health of the person getting the vaccine, and 2) the similarity or "match" between the virus strains in the vaccine and those being spread in the community.

Vaccine effectiveness is not 100%, and some people can still get the flu. For instance, some older people and people with certain chronic illnesses might develop less immunity than healthy young adults after vaccination. However, even for these high-risk individuals, the seasonal flu vaccine still can provide protection against getting severe complications from seasonal flu.

How effective is the seasonal flu vaccine in the elderly?
Among elderly persons not living in chronic-care facilities (such as nursing homes) and those persons with long-term (chronic) medical conditions (such as asthma, diabetes, or heart disease), the seasonal flu shot is 30%-70% effective in preventing hospitalization for pneumonia (a lung infection) and influenza. In past studies among elderly nursing home residents, the seasonal flu shot was most effective in preventing severe illness and complications that may follow flu (like pneumonia), and deaths related to the flu. In this population, the shot can be 50%-60% effective in preventing hospitalization or pneumonia, and 80% effective in preventing death from the flu.

Because persons aged 65 years and older are at high risk for serious complications from seasonal flu, it also is important that people who live with or care for those at high risk for serious complications get a seasonal flu vaccination.

How effective is the seasonal flu vaccine in children?
Because children younger than 5 years of age are at increased risk of severe flu illnesses, children 6-59 months and the household contacts and caregivers of children 0-59 months are recommended to get the seasonal flu vaccine every year. Children younger than 6 months of age are most at risk for having complications from seasonal flu. However, they are too young to get the seasonal flu vaccine. To protect these infants, it is very important that their household members and out-of-home caregivers be vaccinated against seasonal flu.

The seasonal flu vaccine can prevent 66% or more influenza infections in young children, with even higher estimates for older children, when the vaccine strains are well-matched to the flu viruses causing illness. Vaccinating close contacts of children can also help decrease children’s risk of getting the flu.

Besides vaccination, how can people protect themselves against seasonal flu?
Getting the seasonal flu vaccine each year is the best way to prevent seasonal flu. Antiviral drugs are an important second line of defense against the flu; these drugs must be prescribed by a doctor. In addition, good health habits, such as covering your cough and washing your hands, can help prevent the spread of flu and other respiratory illnesses.
[snip]

Information about the "new" 2009 H1N1 Flu (Swine Flu) is located on this website, which gives updates:
http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/

The World Health Organization is awesome !

Pandemic (H1N1) 2009 - update 68
Weekly update (Virological surveillance data)
2 October 2009 -- The Global Influenza Surveillance Network (GISN) continues monitoring the global circulation of influenza viruses in particular those infecting or with the potential of infecting humans including seasonal influenza.

Since the beginning of the pandemic on 19 April 2009 to September 19th , a total of 80 countries reported to FluNet. The total number of specimens reported positive for influenza viruses by NIC laboratories was 123,740. Of these, 73,998 (59.8%) were pandemic H1N1, 6513 (5.3%) were seasonal A (H1), 18,182 (14.7%) were A (H3), 20,891 (16.9%) were A (Not subtyped) and 4156 (3.4%) were influenza B.

For this reporting week (13 September to 19 September 2009); a total of 21 countries reported to FluNet. The total number of specimens reported positive for influenza viruses by NIC laboratories was 8608. Of these, 5608 (65.1%) were pandemic H1N1, 186 (2.2%) were seasonal A (H1), 1002 (11.6%) were A (H3), 1702 (19.8%) were A (Not subtyped) and 110 (1.8%) were influenza B.

All pandemic H1N1 2009 influenza viruses analysed to date have been antigenically and genetically similar to A/California/7/2009-like pandemic H1N1 2009 virus.
http://www.who.int/csr/disease/swineflu/laboratory02_10_2009/en/index.html

P.S. Raised eyes Mattera means being sarcastic. I've gotten phone calls from too many people asking me to please ask people to take this topic seriously. Berkeman seems to like to speak on behalf of others though people calling me don't agree with him and would hope he might refrain in the future so the page doesn't rolloever to page 3 (After 16 messages on a page it turns over to the next page. This message of mine is 14th on page 2 (#30), thus allowing people to read what is on page 2, which is of utmost importance to the topic of disscussion FLU VACCINE. And Berkeman, I may disagree with you but by no means do I dislike you. :)

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berkeman
Mentor
I wouldn't call it media hype that 4,100 people have died from the "new" 2009 H1N1 flu! And that more people from 335,900 may also, along with people who may still get it.

The raised eyes smiley in his post meant that he was being facetious. Like this

The primary reason I don't get flu vaccines is that there is controversy in the issue of how good they are for you. Maybe skepticism and debunking is a better place for this. Maybe some of it is idiot misinformation, but I find the better path for me is to avoid unnecessary vaccinations.

There is a whole lot of information out there about how vaccines may disrupt, or suppress the immune system. There is some that links brain disorders and damage to vaccinations.

I have read that H1N1 vaccines will contain thiomersol, and squalene, both of which are controversial.

If you are concerned about thiomersol, or adding mercury to your system, you might wan't to try and get a single dose injectable, rather than from a multi dose vial.

"Bacteriostatics like thiomersal are not needed in more-expensive single-dose injectables.[4]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal#Toxicology

Correlation found between Squalene and Gulf War Syndrome

"In our small cohort, the substantial majority (95%) of overtly ill deployed GWS patients had antibodies to squalene. All (100%) GWS patients immunized for service in Desert Shield/Desert Storm who did not deploy, but had the same signs and symptoms as those who did deploy, had antibodies to squalene. In contrast, none (0%) of the deployed Persian Gulf veterans not showing signs and symptoms of GWS have antibodies to squalene."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10640454

And then there is this new bit of preliminary research.

"Preliminary research suggests the seasonal flu shot may put people at greater risk for getting swine flu, CBC News has learned."

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/09/23/flu-shots-h1n1-seasonal.html [Broken]

I know that the CDC and WHO say vaccines are fine, but they aren't the entire spectrum of researchers and microbiologists. The articles they present are geared more towards dealing with the masses. It would be counter productive to the WHO to scare people even if there are legit concerns. Their role is to make and enforce policy.

I am just a skeptic, so before I start risking damage to my immune system and brain with potentially harmful vaccinations, I want to make sure my life is actually at sufficient risk.

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wow, i'd heard from a doc in TX that mexicans were being hit pretty hard, but the latino deaths are really out of proportion.

The primary reason I don't get flu vaccines is that there is controversy in the issue of how good they are for you.

There is no controversy.

I have read that H1N1 vaccines will contain thiomersol, and squalene, both of which are controversial.

If you are concerned about thiomersol, or adding mercury to your system, you might wan't to try and get a single dose injectable, rather than from a multi dose vial.

Neither of those substances are controversial in the scientific community.

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228

At concentrations found in vaccines, thimerosal meets the requirements for a preservative as set forth by the United States Pharmacopeia; that is, it kills the specified challenge organisms and is able to prevent the growth of the challenge fungi (U.S. Pharmacopeia 2004). Thimerosal in concentrations of 0.001% (1 part in 100,000) to 0.01% (1 part in 10,000) has been shown to be effective in clearing a broad spectrum of pathogens. A vaccine containing 0.01% thimerosal as a preservative contains 50 micrograms of thimerosal per 0.5 mL dose or approximately 25 micrograms of mercury per 0.5 mL dose.

Prior to its introduction in the 1930's, data were available in several animal species and humans providing evidence for its safety and effectiveness as a preservative (Powell and Jamieson 1931). Since then, thimerosal has been the subject of several studies (see Bibliography) and has a long record of safe and effective use preventing bacterial and fungal contamination of vaccines, with no ill effects established other than minor local reactions at the site of injection.

# wenty two million doses of Chiron's influenza vaccine (FLUAD) have been administered safely since 1997. This vaccine contains about 10mg of squalene per dose. No severe adverse events have been associated with the vaccine. Some mild local reactogenicity has been observed.
# Clinical studies on squalene-containing vaccines have been done in infants and neonates without evidence of safety concerns.

Over 22 million doses of squalene-containing flu vaccine have been administered. The absence of significant vaccine-related adverse events following this number of doses suggests that squalene in vaccines has no significant risk. This vaccine has been given primarily to older age groups.

Correlation found between Squalene and Gulf War Syndrome

There is also a correlation between squalene and not having gulf war syndrome.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19379786

Since the end of the 1991 Gulf War, there have been reports of unexplained, multisymptom illnesses afflicting veterans who consistently report more symptoms than do nondeployed veterans. One of the many possible exposures suspected of causing chronic multisymptom illnesses Gulf War veterans is squalene, thought to be present in anthrax vaccine. We examined the relationship between squalene antibodies and chronic symptoms reported by Navy construction workers (Seabees), n=579. 30.2% were deployers, 7.4% were defined as ill, and 43.5% were positive for squalene antibodies. 8b]We found no association between squalene antibody status and chronic multisymptom illness (p=0.465). [/b]The etiology of Gulf War syndrome remains unknown, but should not include squalene antibody status.

"Preliminary research suggests the seasonal flu shot may put people at greater risk for getting swine flu, CBC News has learned."

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/09/23/flu-shots-h1n1-seasonal.html [Broken]

The article states that

Researchers know that, theoretically, when people are exposed to bacteria or a virus, it can stimulate the immune system to create antibodies that facilitate the entry of another strain of the virus or disease. Dengue fever is one example, Low said.

Thus it is a property of the immune system, not the vaccines.

I am just a skeptic, so before I start risking damage to my immune system and brain with potentially harmful vaccinations, I want to make sure my life is actually at sufficient risk.

There are no such risks as the conspiracy theorists are portraying them.

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I know that the CDC and WHO say vaccines are fine, but they aren't the entire spectrum of researchers and microbiologists. The articles they present are geared more towards dealing with the masses. It would be counter productive to the WHO to scare people even if there are legit concerns. Their role is to make and enforce policy. I am just a skeptic, so before I start risking damage to my immune system and brain with potentially harmful vaccinations, I want to make sure my life is actually at sufficient risk.

First off, let’s look at who is “WHO[World Heath Organization]” - its people and offices:

More than 8000 people from more than 150 countries work for the Organization in 147 country offices, six regional offices and at the headquarters in Geneva, Switzerland.

In addition to medical doctors, public health specialists, scientists and epidemiologists, WHO staff include people trained to manage administrative, financial, and information systems, as well as experts in the fields of health statistics, economics and emergency relief.

Next, let’s understand what is CDS. Best for me to provide you with part of the Mission Statement for the CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION:

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) serves as the national focus for developing and applying disease prevention and control, environmental health, and health promotion and health education activities designed to improve the health of the people of the United States. To accomplish its mission, CDC identifies and defines preventable health problems and maintains active surveillance of diseases through epidemiologic and laboratory investigations and data collection, analysis, and distribution; serves as the PHS lead agency in developing and implementing operational programs relating to environmental health problems, and conducts operational research aimed at developing and testing effective disease prevention, control, and health promotion programs; administers a national program to develop recommended occupational safety and health standards and to conduct research, training, and technical assistance to assure safe and healthful working conditions for every working person; develops and implements a program to sustain a strong national workforce in disease prevention and control; and conducts a national program for improving the performance of clinical laboratories.

CDC is responsible for controlling the introduction and spread of infectious diseases, and
provides consultation and assistance to other nations and international agencies to assist in improving their disease prevention and control, environmental health, and health promotion activities. CDC administers the Preventive Health and Health Services Block Grant and specific preventive health categorical grant programs while providing program expertise and assistance in responding to Federal, State, local, and private organizations on matters related to disease prevention and control activities.
http://www.cdc.gov/maso/pdf/cdcmiss.pdf

Third off, where does the FDA come into this picture. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) list of Vaccines Licensed for Immunization and Distribution in the US with Supporting Documents. Here’s part of the list of vaccines.

•Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent
CSL Limited; MedImmune LLC; Novartis Vaccines and Diagnostics Limited; Sanofi Pasteur, Inc.
•Influenza Virus Vaccine, H5N1 (for National Stockpile)
Sanofi Pasteur, Inc
•Influenza Virus Vaccine, Trivalent, Types A and B
CSL Limited (Afluria); ID Biomedical Corp of Quebec (FluLaval); GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals (Fluarix); Novartis Vaccines and Diagnostics, Ltd (Fluvirin); Sanofi Pasteur, Inc (Fluzone); MedImmune, LLC (FluMist)
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/ucm093830.htm [Broken]

More about FDA vaccines information can be located here: http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/default.htm

Last but not least, there is VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System):

The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) is a national vaccine safety surveillance program co-sponsored by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). VAERS is a post-marketing safety surveillance program, collecting information about adverse events (possible side effects) that occur after the administration of vaccines licensed for use in the United States.

VAERS provides a nationwide mechanism by which adverse events following immunization may be reported, analyzed, and made available to the public. VAERS also provides a vehicle for disseminating vaccine safety-related information to parents and guardians, health care providers, vaccine manufacturers, state vaccine programs, and other constituencies.

[And noted on the following link you will also find this statement: "CDC and FDA do not provide individual medical treatment, advice, or diagnosis. If you need individual medical or health care advice, consult a qualified health care provider."]

http://vaers.hhs.gov/index

I personally feel safe and confident knowing that people within WHO, CDS, FDA, and VAERS care about my health and others.

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Here is some good news that links back to what I presented about WHO. Let's not forget the importance of pharmaceutical and healthcare companies.

GlaxoSmithKline update: Government orders for pandemic (H1N1) 2009 vaccine

Issued: Tuesday 06 October 2009, London, UK

GSK is committed to supporting governments and health authorities around the world respond to the pandemic (H1N1) 2009 influenza strain.

The company today provided an update on orders received for its pandemic (H1N1) adjuvanted vaccine.

On the 4th August, GSK confirmed that it had contracts in place to supply 291 million doses of the vaccine and had a variety of agreements in place with the US Government to supply pandemic products worth $250 million. Since that date, 22 government orders have been agreed to supply a further 149 million doses of the vaccine. This now brings the total number of doses ordered for GSK’s pandemic vaccines to 440 million. Discussions continue with governments for further supplies. First supplies of the vaccine will be shipped to governments during the week commencing 5th October. Shipments of the vaccine will be delivered in both the fourth quarter of 2009 and the first half of 2010. The vaccine deliveries are contingent on a number of factors including government import/export regulations, regulatory approvals, approvals for outsourced packaging and filling as well as testing required by reference laboratories. GSK will continue to provide regular updates to governments relating to delivery schedules to support them in planning their vaccination programmes. Further information on GSK’s development of vaccines to protect against pandemic (H1N1) 2009, including explanation of the development process and background information on adjuvants is available on: www.gsk.com/media/pandemic-flu.htm[/URL] GlaxoSmithKline – one of the world’s leading research-based pharmaceutical and healthcare companies – is committed to improving the quality of human life by enabling people to do more, feel better and live longer. For further information please visit [url]www.gsk.com[/url] [PLAIN]http://www.gsk.com/media/pressreleases/2009/2009_pressrelease_10104.htm [Broken] Another article of interest from REUTERS. WHO says H1N1 vaccine safe, urges mass take-up Tue Oct 6, 2009 6:47am EDT EDTGENEVA (Reuters) - The World Health Organization (WHO) restated its confidence in the H1N1 flu vaccine on Tuesday, calling it the most important tool against the pandemic. Mild adverse side effects such as muscle cramps or headache are to be expected in some cases, but everyone who has access to the vaccine should be inoculated, it said. Mass vaccination campaigns against the swine flu virus are underway in China and Australia and will be starting soon in the United States and parts of Europe, WHO spokesman Gregory Hartl said. "It is important to remember that the vaccines, which have already been approved, have been used for years and years and years in their seasonal vaccine formulation and have been shown to be among the safest vaccines that exist," he told a news briefing. Hartl, asked whether WHO was concerned by reports that some people were reluctant to be injected with the new vaccine, said: "Certainly we have seen the reports. Again, we would restate that the most important tool that we have to fight this pandemic is the vaccine." It was doubly important that health care workers be vaccinated, as it protects them as well as patients, he added. "We would hope that everyone who has a chance to get vaccinated does get vaccinated," Hartl told Reuters. The United Nations agency declared in June that the H1N1 virus was causing an influenza pandemic and its collaborating laboratories have provided seed virus to drug makers worldwide to develop vaccines. GlaxoSmithKline won a further 22 government orders for its H1N1 swine flu vaccine in the last two months, taking the total number of doses ordered to 440 million worth some$3.5 billion. Rivals in flu vaccines include Sanofi-Aventis, Novartis, Baxter, AstraZeneca and CSL.
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL626045720091006

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There is no controversy.

Neither of those substances are controversial in the scientific community.

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228

There is also a correlation between squalene and not having gulf war syndrome.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19379786

The article states that

Thus it is a property of the immune system, not the vaccines.

There are no such risks as the conspiracy theorists are portraying them.

There no controversy that the vaccine is bad for you, only controversy over how bad it is.

Also, there is no controversy over thiomersol, I think all scientists agree that mercury is bad for you.

There are two conflicting studies, the one I linked, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10640454, from the Department of Microbiology, Tulane Medical School, and the one you linked from the DOD.

controversial |ˌkäntrəˈvər sh əl; -ˈvərsēəl|
giving rise or likely to give rise to public disagreement : years of wrangling over a controversial bypass.

There are such risks as outlined by the FDA and in the insert that comes with your vaccine.

I posted the list of possible adverse reactions directly from the FDA, and also some of the ingredients which are toxic, but it was all mysteriously deleted. I'll repost the list in a while, as it is pertinent information for anyone considering getting the vaccine.

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"DOSAGE FORMS AND STRENGTHS
Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine, a sterile suspension for intramuscular
injection, is supplied in two presentations:
• Prefilled single dose syringe, 0.5-mL. Thimerosal, a mercury derivative used during
manufacture, is removed by subsequent purification steps to a trace amount (≤ 1 mcg
mercury per 0.5-mL dose) (3, 11)
• Multidose vial, 5-mL. Contains thimerosal, a mercury derivative (25 mcg mercury
per 0.5-mL dose
). Thimerosal is added as preservative. (3,11)"....

"Each dose from the multidose vial or from the prefilled syringe may also contain
residual amounts of egg proteins (≤ 1 mcg ovalbumin), polymyxin (≤ 3.75 mcg),
neomycin (≤ 2.5 mcg), betapropiolactone (not more than 0.5 mcg) and nonylphenol
ethoxylate (not more than 0.015% w/v).

The multidose vial stopper and the syringe stopper/plunger do not contain latex."

There is a complete list of side effects and commonality of them by age group in the link.

included because: a) they represent reactions which are known to occur following
immunizations generally or influenza immunizations specifically; b) they are potentially
serious; or c) the frequency of reporting.

• Body as a whole: Local injection site reactions (including pain, pain limiting limb
movement, redness, swelling, warmth, ecchymosis, induration), hot flashes/flushes;
chills; fever; malaise; shivering; fatigue; asthenia; facial edema.
• Immune system disorders: Hypersensitivity reactions (including throat and/or mouth
edema). In rare cases, hypersensitivity reactions have lead to anaphylactic shock and
death.

• Cardiovascular disorders: Vasculitis (in rare cases with transient renal involvement),
syncope shortly after vaccination.
• Digestive disorders: Diarrhea; nausea; vomiting; abdominal pain.
• Blood and lymphatic disorders: Local lymphadenopathy; transient thrombocytopenia.
• Metabolic and nutritional disorders: Loss of appetite.
• Musculoskeletal: Arthralgia; myalgia; myasthenia.
• Nervous system disorders: Headache; dizziness; neuralgia; paraesthesia; confusion;
febrile convulsions; Guillain-Barré Syndrome; myelitis (including encephalomyelitis
and transverse myelitis); neuropathy (including neuritis); paralysis (including Bell’s
Palsy).

• Respiratory disorders: Dyspnea; chest pain; cough; pharyngitis; rhinitis.
• Skin and appendages: Stevens-Johnson syndrome; sweating; pruritus; urticaria; rash
(including non-specific, maculopapular, and vesiculobulbous).

6.4 Other Adverse Reactions Associated with Influenza Vaccination
Anaphylaxis has been reported after administration of FLUVIRIN. Although
FLUVIRIN and Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine contain only a limited
quantity of egg protein, this protein can induce immediate hypersensitivity reactions
among persons who have severe egg allergy. Allergic reactions include hives,
angioedema, allergic asthma, and systemic anaphylaxis [see CONTRAINDICATIONS
(4)].
The 1976 swine influenza vaccine was associated with an increased frequency of
Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS). Evidence for a causal relation of GBS with subsequent
vaccines prepared from other influenza viruses is unclear. If influenza vaccine does pose
a risk, it is probably slightly more than 1 additional case/1 million persons vaccinated.
Neurological disorders temporally associated with influenza vaccination such as
encephalopathy, optic neuritis/neuropathy, partial facial paralysis, and brachial plexus
neuropathy have been reported.
Microscopic polyangiitis (vasculitis) has been reported temporally associated with
influenza vaccination."

All quotes are from the FDA link provided.

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First off, let’s look at who is “WHO[World Heath Organization]” - its people and offices:

Next, let’s understand what is CDS. Best for me to provide you with part of the Mission Statement for the CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION:

Third off, where does the FDA come into this picture. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) list of Vaccines Licensed for Immunization and Distribution in the US with Supporting Documents. Here’s part of the list of vaccines.

Last but not least, there is VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System):

I personally feel safe and confident knowing that people within WHO, CDS, FDA, and VAERS care about my health and others.

Out of all the articles you posted about who should get the vaccinations, including children over 6 months old, did they say how much mercury was in it, and did they inform you that you can prevent the mercury exposure by getting a single dose injectable instead of the multiple dose vial form?

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Out of all the articles you posted about who should get the vaccinations, including children over 6 months old, did they say how much mercury was in it, and did they inform you that you can prevent the mercury exposure by getting a single dose injectable instead of the multiple dose vial form?

jreelawg, I've posted articles since page 1. Perhaps you should read them all. Articles that I have posted are from ALA, WHO, CDS, FDA, and VAERS. Bye the way, I personally have never said who should get vaccinations and nowhere is there evidence of such.

I think you are confusing 'Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine' with the 'seasonal influenza vaccine' which is what was initally discussed by the original poster Evo and is currently available to the public at large. It appears your recent message to me that you are concerned about *mercury* related to the 'Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine'. I hope the following article from the FDA might shed further light. (Please note what I've highlighted in red.) And like I said earlier, "I personally feel safe and confident knowing that people within WHO, CDS, FDA, and VAERS care about my health and others."

Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccines Questions and Answers
Provide Protection Against Influenza Disease Caused by Pandemic (H1N1) 2009 Virus

September 15, 2009

What is the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) announcing?
FDA has approved supplements to existing vaccine licenses to protect against the pandemic (H1N1) 2009 influenza virus. The Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent vaccines contains an A/California/7/09-like virus. Information on the Influenza A (H1N1)2009 Monovalent Vaccine approvals. [Go online to link]

Is this vaccine part of the seasonal influenza vaccine that is recommended every year?No, this is a stand-alone monovalent vaccine and is separate from the seasonal influenza vaccine.

Will the seasonal influenza vaccine provide protection against the 2009 H1N1 influenza virus?
No. Although the currently licensed seasonal trivalent influenza vaccines contain an H1N1 subtype, their subtype differs from the 2009 H1N1 influenza virus, which is a new virus strain that has never before circulated among humans. The 2009 H1N1 influenza virus is not the same as previous or current human seasonal influenza viruses and seasonal influenza vaccine does not provide protection against the 2009 H1N1 influenza virus.

Do I still need to get the seasonal influenza vaccine?
Yes, it is still important that those individuals for whom seasonal influenza vaccine is recommended receive it. According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), between 5 and 20 percent of the U.S. population are infected with seasonal influenza each year. More than 200,000 people are hospitalized from its complications and about 36,000 people die. Vaccination is the best protection against influenza and can prevent many illnesses and deaths. Since influenza viruses change almost every season, there is always a possibility of a less than optimal match between the vaccine and the virus strains that end up causing the most illness. However, even if the vaccine and the circulating strains are not an exact match, the vaccine may reduce the severity of the illness or may help prevent influenza-related complications.

What information did FDA use to support approval of the Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent influenza vaccines?
Vaccines used in the United States must be licensed by FDA. FDA approved these vaccines as a strain change to each manufacturer’s FDA-approved seasonal influenza vaccine. Each of the manufacturers will make the Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent vaccines using its well-established, licensed egg-based manufacturing process that is used for seasonal influenza vaccine.

There is considerable experience with seasonal influenza vaccine development and production and influenza vaccines produced by this technology have a long and successful track record of safety and effectiveness in the United States. The safety and effectiveness demonstrated for seasonal influenza vaccine also support the licensure of the Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent vaccines produced using the same process as for seasonal vaccine.

Clinical studies of the Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent vaccines are ongoing. FDA will be assessing information from these studies to determine the optimal dose of the vaccine based on immunogenicity data (the levels of antibodies produced).

The Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent vaccines will undergo the same rigorous testing and lot release procedures that are in place for seasonal influenza vaccines.

Does FDA know at this time how many doses individuals should receive?
Currently available data suggest that children 6 months to 9 years of age have little or no evidence of protective antibodies to the pandemic (H1N1) 2009 virus (MMWR 2009; 58(19) 521-524, http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5819a1.htm). Based on these data, children 9 years of age and younger should be administered 2 doses of the monovalent pandemic (H1N1) 2009 virus vaccine. Adults should be administered 1 dose, as should children and adolescents 10 years of age and older, as we expect that they will respond similarly to adults. Clinical studies are underway and will provide additional information about the optimal number of doses.

Will the vaccine be available with and without a preservative?
Yes. As with the seasonal influenza vaccines, the Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent vaccines will be available in formulations that contain thimerosal, a mercury-containing preservative, as well as preservative-free formulations.

Is thimerosal safe when used as a preservative in vaccines?
Yes. A high standard of safety is expected by FDA. We are aware of the concerns that some people have regarding thimerosal in vaccines. The vast majority of research conducted in the U.S. and around the world does not support an association between thimerosal in vaccines and autism. Since 2001, no new vaccine licensed by FDA for use in children has contained thimerosal as a preservative, and all vaccines routinely recommended by CDC for children under six years of age have been thimerosal-free, or contain only trace amounts, except for some formulations of influenza vaccine.

Are the Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent vaccines safe?
The Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent vaccines are manufactured and tested using the same processes used for the seasonal vaccine. Many millions of doses of seasonal vaccine have been distributed every year for many years, and seasonal vaccines have a well-established safety profile. As for seasonal vaccines, safety will also be monitored as part of the vaccination program (see below).

What are the expected side effects of the Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent vaccines?
The expected side effects will be similar to those of the seasonal vaccine, potentially including a mild fever, body aches, and fatigue for a few days after the vaccine, and soreness at the injection site. The most common side effects seen with administration of the nasal vaccine include runny nose or nasal congestion in recipients of all ages, fever more than 100 degrees Fahrenheit in children two to six years of age, and sore throat in adults. As with any medical product, serious adverse events may occur.

People who have a severe (life-threatening) allergy to chicken eggs or to any other substance in the vaccine should not be vaccinated.

How will the Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent vaccines be monitored for safety?FDA and CDC will closely monitor the safety of the Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 vaccines. FDA is collaborating with CDC, HHS, and other government agencies to enhance the capacity for adverse event safety monitoring during and after the Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 vaccination program. Efforts are underway to establish a robust network to share information in real-time. The network will build on the well established Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System and Vaccine Safety Datalink by integrating capabilities from the Department of Defense, the Department of Veterans Affairs, the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services, State, Territorial, Tribal, and local public health and medical, and private sector healthcare entities. FDA is also engaged with international regulatory partners on pharmacovigilance planning efforts.

What makes up the Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent vaccines?
The Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 monovalent vaccines are manufactured using the same approved processes used to produce the seasonal influenza vaccines. Ingredients used during the manufacture of influenza vaccines include substances to help prevent bacterial contamination, to inactivate or “kill” the viruses, and stabilizers to prevent the vaccine from changing. Vaccines that are packaged in multi-dose vials use a preservative to prevent contamination.

The Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent vaccines are made from a single influenza virus strain that is an A/California/7/09-like virus. For the injectible vaccines, or shots, the virus is inactivated, using the same processes the manufacturers use for seasonal influenza vaccines. The vaccine administered via nasal spray contains a live, attenuated virus.

People who have a severe (life-threatening) allergy to chicken eggs, or to any other substance in the vaccine, should not be vaccinated.

When will the vaccine be available?

Although approved by FDA, initial lots of the vaccines may not be immediately available until the end of September to mid-October, when manufacturers complete production and testing.

What can be done to prevent getting infected with the 2009 H1N1 influenza virus?
Cover your nose and mouth with a tissue when you cough or sneeze. Throw the tissue in the trash after you use it.

Cover your nose and mouth with a tissue when you cough or sneeze. Throw the tissue in the trash after you use it.

If a tissue is not available cough or sneeze into your elbow.
Wash your hands often with soap and water, especially after you cough or sneeze. You should wash your hands as long as it takes to sing “Happy Birthday” twice.
Try to avoid close contact with sick people.

Also, I should mention that your message #38 and the link you proved therein does state:
"5.3 Preventing and Managing Allergic Reactions
Prior to administration of any dose of Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine, the healthcare provider should review the patient’s prior immunization history for possible adverse events, to determine the existence of any contraindication to immunization with Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine and to allow an assessment of benefits and risks. Appropriate medical treatment and supervision must be available to manage possible anaphylactic reactions following administration of the vaccine."

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jreelawg, I've posted articles since page 1. Perhaps you should read them all. Articles that I have posted are from ALA, WHO, CDS, FDA, and VAERS. Bye the way, I personally have never said who should get vaccinations and nowhere is there evidence of such.

I think you are confusing 'Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine' with the 'seasonal influenza vaccine' which is what was initally discussed by the original poster Evo and is currently available to the public at large. It appears your recent message to me that you are concerned about *mercury* related to the 'Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine'. I hope the following article from the FDA might shed further light. (Please note what I've highlighted in red.) And like I said earlier, "I personally feel safe and confident knowing that people within WHO, CDS, FDA, and VAERS care about my health and others."

Also, I should mention that your message #38 and the link you proved therein does state:
"5.3 Preventing and Managing Allergic Reactions
Prior to administration of any dose of Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine, the healthcare provider should review the patient’s prior immunization history for possible adverse events, to determine the existence of any contraindication to immunization with Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine and to allow an assessment of benefits and risks. Appropriate medical treatment and supervision must be available to manage possible anaphylactic reactions following administration of the vaccine."

I'm not trying to attack you or anything. I'm just pointing out that there are a lot of potential complications, adverse reactions, and side effects that may occur when you get a flu vaccine.

Obviously you got the impression that there were no such possible risks. You must have had this impressions based on what you read from those articles. Clearly they are not as informative as you lend them credit for being.

The H1N1 vaccine is new, but it is made the same way as the seasonal flu vaccine, so the list of side effects and possible adverse reactions are based on the seasonal flu vaccine.

I'm not saying nobody should get the vaccinations. I'm just trying to inform people so they can make an educated decision.

Also there are four different H1N1 vaccines made by four different companies. Each one has a unique list of ingredients, and a slightly different list of side effects. So if you want, you can go look up "H1N1 vaccine FDA" on google, and you can read the inserts that come with each one, pick the one which seems least hazardous, and get that one.

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I'm not trying to attack you or anything. I'm just pointing out that there are a lot of potential complications, adverse reactions, and side effects that may occur when you get a flu vaccine.

Obviously you got the impression that there were no such possible risks. You must have had this impressions based on what you read from those articles. Clearly they are not as informative as you lend them credit for being.

Well, I’m glad to know you don’t wish to attack me. Let's be honest, I’ve caught you in a mistake as I presented in my last posting. I’ve been attempting to correct your misinformation by presenting the correct information which you now appear to term “impressions”, which is incorrect. I do think it would be wise for you to reread all the information presented, especially no’s 4, 7, 10, 20, 28, 30, 35, 36, and 41. Every website (url) that I have presented is from a reputable scientific website. As I've mentioned before in #20 'we should make mention to all viewers how important it is to read *everything* on the websites that we have presented'. This is why I added to in my #41 "your message #38 and the link you proved therein does state:
"5.3 Preventing and Managing Allergic Reactions
Prior to administration of any dose of Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine, the healthcare provider should review the patient’s prior immunization history for possible adverse events, to determine the existence of any contraindication to immunization with Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine and to allow an assessment of benefits and risks. Appropriate medical treatment and supervision must be available to manage possible anaphylactic reactions following administration of the vaccine."'

The H1N1 vaccine is new, but it is made the same way as the seasonal flu vaccine, so the list of side effects and possible adverse reactions are based on the seasonal flu vaccine.

There is A(H1N1) 2009 Monovalent vaccines and a Intranasal Vaccine.(http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/ucm181950.htm) Please provide me a link to a reputable science website that supports your claim, “The H1N1 vaccine is new, but it is made the same way as the seasonal flu vaccine, so the list of side effects and possible adverse reactions are based on the seasonal flu vaccine.”

I'm not saying nobody should get the vaccinations. I'm just trying to inform people so they can make an educated decision.

I don’t think it wise for you to personally advise people what vaccine they should be given.

Also there are four different H1N1 vaccines made by four different companies. Each one has a unique list of ingredients, and a slightly different list of side effects. So if you want, you can go look up "H1N1 vaccine FDA" on google, and you can read the inserts that come with each one, pick the one which seems least hazardous, and get that one.

No one needs to go to Google for the information because the information is found within the link I provided you within message #35. I would hope people would explore that website. I do understand your concern Jreelawg, but neither you nor I or anyone else online are to advise people which vaccine is the least hazardous for him or her. It is also extremely important for people to remember how important it is to consult with his or her licensed physician.

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Well, I’m glad to know you don’t wish to attack me. Let's be honest, I’ve caught you in a mistake as I presented in my last posting. I’ve been attempting to correct your misinformation by presenting the correct information which you now appear to term “impressions”, which is incorrect. I do think it would be wise for you to reread all the information presented, especially no’s 4, 7, 10, 20, 28, 30, 35, 36, and 41. Every website (url) that I have presented is from a reputable scientific website. As I've mentioned before in #20 'we should make mention to all viewers how important it is to read *everything* on the websites that we have presented'. This is why I added to in my #41 "your message #38 and the link you proved therein does state:
"5.3 Preventing and Managing Allergic Reactions
Prior to administration of any dose of Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine, the healthcare provider should review the patient’s prior immunization history for possible adverse events, to determine the existence of any contraindication to immunization with Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine and to allow an assessment of benefits and risks. Appropriate medical treatment and supervision must be available to manage possible anaphylactic reactions following administration of the vaccine."'

There is A(H1N1) 2009 Monovalent vaccines and a Intranasal Vaccine.(http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/ucm181950.htm) Please provide me a link to a reputable science website that supports your claim, “The H1N1 vaccine is new, but it is made the same way as the seasonal flu vaccine, so the list of side effects and possible adverse reactions are based on the seasonal flu vaccine.”

I don’t think it wise for you to personally advise people what vaccine they should be given.

No one needs to go to Google for the information because the information is found within the link I provided you within message #35. I would hope people would explore that website. I do understand your concern Jreelawg, but neither you nor I or anyone else online are to advise people which vaccine is the least hazardous for him or her. It is also extremely important for people to remember how important it is to consult with his or her licensed physician.

First of all I posted no misinformation maybe you could clarify what information you think is wrong.

Second, I was just pointing out information that was lacking from that which you posted. I'm not saying those articles are wrong, just that there is more information you should read before getting the vaccine.

If you want to read what's in the vaccine and what the risks are, then you should read it from the insert off the FDA website, or elsewhere.

Are you honestly recommending people don't read this information?

Your opinion on these matters seams dangerous and irresponsible.

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Jreelawg, people can read what I have provided and read what you have provided.

jreelawg, I asked you in my last post, "Please provide me a link to a reputable science website that supports your claim, “The H1N1 vaccine is new, but it is made the same way as the seasonal flu vaccine, so the list of side effects and possible adverse reactions are based on the seasonal flu vaccine.”" Where's the link?

Jreelawg, you said, "If you want to read what's in the vaccine and what the risks are, then you should read it from the insert off the FDA website, or elsewhere.
Are you honestly recommending people don't read this information?
Your opinion on these matters seams dangerous and irresponsible."

First off, I have offered no opinions. However, you appear to have given opinions that have no affect on me. People in general need to have a professionally licensed physician explain to them about the medication.

Good-bye.

Jreelawg, people can read what I have provided and read what you have provided.

jreelawg, I asked you in my last post, "Please provide me a link to a reputable science website that supports your claim, “The H1N1 vaccine is new, but it is made the same way as the seasonal flu vaccine, so the list of side effects and possible adverse reactions are based on the seasonal flu vaccine.”" Where's the link?

Jreelawg, you said, "If you want to read what's in the vaccine and what the risks are, then you should read it from the insert off the FDA website, or elsewhere.
Are you honestly recommending people don't read this information?
Your opinion on these matters seams dangerous and irresponsible."

First off, I have offered no opinions. However, you appear to have given opinions that have no affect on me. People in general need to have a professionally licensed physician explain to them about the medication.

Good-bye.

Novartis’ Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine and seasonal trivalent
Influenza Virus Vaccine (FLUVIRIN®) are manufactured by the same process. The data
in this section were obtained from clinical studies and postmarketing experience with
FLUVIRIN."

Your opinion on these matters seams dangerous and irresponsible.

Rather it is your opinion of these matters that seem ignorant and dangerous. Please comment our refutation of your mercury and squalene conspiracy theories.

Rather it is your opinion of these matters that seem ignorant and dangerous. Please comment our refutation of your mercury and squalene conspiracy theories.

I think I already did comment on your refutation. You stated that thiomersol, and mercury are not controversial substances. You stated squalene is not controversial. You said there is no risk of adverse effects affecting your immune system or your brain.

I posted the list of possible adverse reactions from the insert that comes with the vaccine, and it clearly states there is a risk of adverse reactions including things ranging from immune system disorders, to nervous system disorders, and more.

Do you think that the FDA website is a crackpot conspiracy theorist site?

My only suggestion would be that a person considering getting vaccinated does some research so that they know what they are getting. It seams some people find that idea offensive, which I find hard to understand.

If you don't want to know what is in the vaccine, what the side effects and adverse reactions could be, and if you don't want to get information from more than one source than be my guest. Nobody is forcing you to know things you don't want to know.

There is no controversy.

....
Thus it is a property of the immune system, not the vaccines.

....
There are no such risks as the conspiracy theorists are portraying them.

If you say so.

That makes no sense. A weakened immune system is the property of the immune system, not the thing that caused it. What is you point here? I don't get it.

There are such risks as the companies who make the vaccinations are required by the FDA to portray.

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Monique
Staff Emeritus