Flu Vaccine

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  • Thread starter Evo
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  • #51
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Yes, you should read drug-inserts and be aware of the possible side effects Let yourself be informed by a trained professional if in doubt (either a pharmacist or a doctor).

You should not inflate the possible side-effects unless you have some actual numbers on the frequency with which they occur. People with a weakened immune response can have an adverse reaction to certain vaccines, as do people with a immune response to one of the components of the vaccine (such as egg). That does not mean that the vaccine is dangerous to the general population.

You mention that some vaccines contain the preservative Thiomersal, which is an organomercury compound. You then point to a website that shows that mercury is dangerous, but before something can be considered a toxin you first need to consider the dose. Do you have evidence that Thiomersal in the administered dose has adverse health effects?

There is a misunderstanding I think. I am not arguing that people should not get the vaccine, or that the amount of thiomersol is too much of a risk. I mentioned that it is controversial.

If you get 2 doses of seasonal and pandemic influenza vaccines from multidose vials, of the Novartis brand, then you get 100 micrograms of mercury. That's it, do with that information what you will. I am not making recommendations on how much mercury is safe.


"DOSAGE FORMS AND STRENGTHS
Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine, a sterile suspension for intramuscular
injection, is supplied in two presentations:
• Prefilled single dose syringe, 0.5-mL. Thimerosal, a mercury derivative used during
manufacture, is removed by subsequent purification steps to a trace amount (≤ 1 mcg
mercury per 0.5-mL dose) (3, 11)
• Multidose vial, 5-mL. Contains thimerosal, a mercury derivative (25 mcg mercury
per 0.5-mL dose). Thimerosal is added as preservative. (3,11)"....

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Biologi.../UCM182242.pdf

The quotes on side effects are directly from the insert that come with the vaccine from the FDA website, and more information about frequency can be found in the link I provided.

Also you should be aware that vaccine makers have been granted legal immunity, and are not liable for the vaccines safety.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31971355/ns/health-swine_flu/
 
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  • #52
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We can look at the historical data, in which the information about GBS relating to H1N1 vaccine is based.

"There were reports of Guillain-Barré syndrome, a paralyzing neuromuscular disorder, affecting some people who had received swine flu immunizations. This syndrome is a rare side-effect of modern influenza vaccines, with an incidence of about one case per million vaccinations.[30] As a result, Di Justo writes that "the public refused to trust a government-operated health program that killed old people and crippled young people." In total, 48,161,019 Americans, or just over 22% of the population, had been immunized by the time the National Influenza Immunization Program (NIIP) was effectively halted on December 16, 1976.[31] [32]
Overall, there were 1098 cases of Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) recorded nationwide by CDC surveillance, 532 of which were linked to the NIIP vaccination, resulting in death from severe pulmonary complications for 25 people, which, according to Dr. P. Haber, were probably caused by an immunopathological reaction to the 1976 vaccine. Other influenza vaccines have not been linked to GBS, though caution is advised for certain individuals, particularly those with a history of GBS. [33] [34][35] Still, as observed by a participant in the immunization program, the vaccine killed more Americans than the disease did.[36]"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swine_influenza#1976_U.S._outbreak
 
  • #53
russ_watters
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We can look at the historical data, in which the information about GBS relating to H1N1 vaccine is based.

"There were reports of Guillain-Barré syndrome, a paralyzing neuromuscular disorder, affecting some people who had received swine flu immunizations. This syndrome is a rare side-effect of modern influenza vaccines, with an incidence of about one case per million vaccinations.[30]
Lacking the full article, I'm not convinced from the abstract (linked in the footnote) that the Wiki paraphrase of it is quite right. That incidence rate is so low that they would have an extremely difficult time separating it from the background noise of the normal incidence rate and the abstract does not claim causality, only corellation.

Either way, with an incidence rate that is orders of magnitude lower than the death risk of the flu, that is not a reason not to get a flu vaccine.
 
  • #54
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Lacking the full article, I'm not convinced from the abstract (linked in the footnote) that the Wiki paraphrase of it is quite right. That incidence rate is so low that they would have an extremely difficult time separating it from the background noise of the normal incidence rate and the abstract does not claim causality, only corellation.

Either way, with an incidence rate that is orders of magnitude lower than the death risk of the flu, that is not a reason not to get a flu vaccine.

Your right there is a higher death rate, but if you adjust the death rate to account for unreported cases, the actual death rate is fuzzy. Also, you need to adjust the risk by age, and other factors making someone more at risk to flu. And there are other side affects and possible adverse reactions besides GBS.

Also you should factor in the chances of even getting the swine flu. Some estimates I've read are about 1/3. But you can also factor in how many people you come into contact with, where you work, etc. If you are someone who washes their hands and doesn't spend much time around a lot of people, then you chances are less. Then you need to factor in the chances the vaccine will be effective, I think most of them are about 90% effective according to the FDA. And factor in the other possible adverse reactions. And in the end you still have a gray area surrounding the fact that MF59 adjuvents have only been used in vaccines licensed for people 65 years and older up until now, and will now be used on people 6 months old and up on a massive scale for the first time in history.

"Squalene alone is not an adjuvant, but emulsions of squalene with surfactants enhance the immune response when added to antigens. MF59, a proprietary adjuvant containing squalene, is included in a seasonal subunit influenza vaccine licensed by the Italian regulatory authority in 1997 and subsequently by several other countries. The vaccine contains about 10 mg of squalene per dose. Over 22 million doses have been distributed since that time. Reported rates of adverse events and local reactogenicity are not in excess of those that would be expected with other inactivated seasonal flu vaccines, suggesting that squalene in this vaccine poses no significant risk. This vaccine has been administered primarily to individuals aged 65 years and older, for whom the vaccine was licensed."

http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/topics/adjuvants/squalene/Jun_2006/en/index.html
 
  • #55
Monique
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Science Advisor
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We can look at the historical data, in which the information about GBS relating to H1N1 vaccine is based.

"There were reports of Guillain-Barré syndrome, a paralyzing neuromuscular disorder, affecting some people who had received swine flu immunizations. This syndrome is a rare side-effect of modern influenza vaccines, with an incidence of about one case per million vaccinations.[30] As a result, Di Justo writes that "the public refused to trust a government-operated health program that killed old people and crippled young people." In total, 48,161,019 Americans, or just over 22% of the population, had been immunized by the time the National Influenza Immunization Program (NIIP) was effectively halted on December 16, 1976.[31] [32]
Overall, there were 1098 cases of Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) recorded nationwide by CDC surveillance, 532 of which were linked to the NIIP vaccination, resulting in death from severe pulmonary complications for 25 people, which, according to Dr. P. Haber, were probably caused by an immunopathological reaction to the 1976 vaccine. Other influenza vaccines have not been linked to GBS, though caution is advised for certain individuals, particularly those with a history of GBS. [33] [34][35] Still, as observed by a participant in the immunization program, the vaccine killed more Americans than the disease did.[36]"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swine_influenza#1976_U.S._outbreak
If you read the cited article in [30] it says:

A review by an Institute of Medicine committee of neurological adverse events following TIV (trivalent inactivated influenza vaccines) [17] prompted us to focus part of our review on this topic. Some of the neurological events identified in our review have previously been observed. GBS was the most common serious event reported and second only to paresthesia for all reported neurological events. The 1976–1977 swine influenza vaccines were associated with an increased risk of GBS at a rate of one case per 100,000 persons vaccinated [2] and [17]. This finding may continue to contribute to ongoing concerns and stimulated reporting of GBS to VAERS. However, controlled studies of TIV formulations since that time have demonstrated either no or only slightly elevated risk [17], [29], [30], [31], [32] and [33]. A previous review of VAERS data revealed reporting rates of GBS following receipt of TIV have decreased four-fold from 1994 through 2003 [27].

So the data do not support your point.

An association does not mean a causal link, but rules for drug side-effect reporting are very strict. Any association must be reported, even if the incidence is extremely low.
 
  • #56
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Prior to administration of any dose of Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine, the healthcare provider should review the patient’s prior immunization history for possible adverse events, to determine the existence of any contraindication to immunization with Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine and to allow an assessment of benefits and risks. Appropriate medical treatment and supervision must be available to manage possible anaphylactic reactions following administration of the vaccine."'

There is A(H1N1) 2009 Monovalent vaccines and a Intranasal Vaccine.(http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/ucm181950.htm) Please provide me a link to a reputable science website that supports your claim, “The H1N1 vaccine is new, but it is made the same way as the seasonal flu vaccine, so the list of side effects and possible adverse reactions are based on the seasonal flu vaccine.”

"No one needs to go to Google for the information because the information is found within the link I provided you within message #35. I would hope people would explore that website. I do understand your concern Jreelawg, but neither you nor I or anyone else online are to advise people which vaccine is the least hazardous for him or her. It is also extremely important for people to remember how important it is to consult with his or her licensed physician.

Thank you for organizing this information. Like Evo, I too am concerned with misinformation regarding vaccines.

I have 7 people living in my house including 4 kids and a senior citizen with a weakened immune system. We seem to catch every bug that makes it's way into our community.

I've heard several debates on the pros and cons of injectable H1N1 vs the nasal application. However, I wasn't aware there are injectables available for 3 different age groups.
 
  • #57
Evo
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Oh no, I am not scheduled to get my flu vacine until the end of the month and a co-worker offered me some almonds, which she was sticking her hand into, then she tells me that she's been diagnosed with the flu!!!!!! and is going home because she was reported and is too ill to be at work.

Why me?
 
  • #58
lisab
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
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Oh no, I am not scheduled to get my flu vacine until the end of the month and a co-worker offered me some almonds, which she was sticking her hand into, then she tells me that she's been diagnosed with the flu!!!!!! and is going home because she was reported and is too ill to be at work.

Why me?

Dang, what the hell was she doing at work with the flu? That's so irresponsible!

I've had my seasonal flu shot (even though I don't think I've ever had it in my life).

I'm pretty sure I had H1N1 a couple weeks ago, but I want to get that vaccine too, since I wasn't officially diagnosed with it.

I'm very, very pro-vaccine :biggrin:.
 
  • #59
52
1
Is the data from the government independently verified?
 

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