# Force Required to be a minimum

1. Feb 2, 2016

### Emilio

1. The problem statement, all variables and given/known data
If the resultant force acting on the bracket is required to be a minimum, determine the magnitude of F1. Set Φ=31°

2. Relevant equations
Fx=F(cos(θ))
Fy=F(sin(θ))

3. The attempt at a solution
First I tried to find ∑Fx and ∑Fy
ΣFx=0=200+cos(67.38)260+cos(59)F1x
ΣFy=0=sin(67.38)260+sin(59)F1y

Solving for F1, I got
x=-384.06
y=279.99

And then to find the magnitude, I found the root of the sum of their squares

√(-384.06² + 279.99²)=479.335N

which was wrong.

A few things: I know the x-component can't be negative, it makes no sense, but I don't know what to change to make it positive. I also don't know what is implied by "required to be a minimum."

Last edited: Feb 2, 2016
2. Feb 2, 2016

### Staff: Mentor

Something important missing here?

3. Feb 2, 2016

### Emilio

I'm not sure what you mean, am I missing a step or did I leave something out? All it says in the prompt is "Set ϕ = 31° ."

4. Feb 2, 2016

### Staff: Mentor

There's a degree symbol? Typesetting sometimes misses symbols. Do you think it says set F1's angle to be 31°?

5. Feb 2, 2016

### Emilio

Oh sorry, I see a degree symbol in my original post, not sure why it doesn't show up.

I did set ϕ = to 31°, but I used 59° in my equations just because it was a little easier to visualize for me. I didn't think it would make a difference because sin(31)=cos(59).

6. Feb 2, 2016

### Staff: Mentor

The phi isn't showing up on my screen, it's just a blank space.

7. Feb 2, 2016

### Emilio

Oh that's odd, I even see the phi in your quoted text. I rewrote it using the editor instead of copy-pasting symbols, so hopefully it looks a little more accurate.

8. Feb 2, 2016

### Staff: Mentor

Your mistake is in equating the sum of the components to zero. That would certainly be ideal, but with the angle fixed all you can aim for is a minimum, not zero.

9. Feb 2, 2016

### Emilio

What does it mean to find a minimum? A minimum force that would keep it in equilibrium? The smallest possible resultant force?

10. Feb 2, 2016

### Staff: Mentor

The resultant sum of those 3 external forces is to be its smallest possible value.

11. Feb 3, 2016

### Emilio

So instead of ∑Fx,y being equal to 0, they should equal the smallest possible value?

Wouldn't that be Fx=0 and Fy=0?

12. Feb 3, 2016

### Staff: Mentor

The character set you are using seems problematical. I saw Fy= -∞ in your post, which seemed a puzzling value; yet when I quote that to respond, that -∞ has transformed into a 0. You should be using the characters that appear when you tap $\Sigma$ in the forum editor toolbar, or else use Latex.

You can't make the resultant horizontal force equal to zero, as all forces have a component to the right---there is not going to be any cancelling in the x-direction.

13. Feb 3, 2016

### Emilio

I had typed -∞ at first, but after considering it, I realized it didn't make sense so I changed it to 0.

So I can't set Fx=0, but I want to get this value as small as possible. Do I set up a limit as Fx approaches 0?

14. Feb 3, 2016

### Staff: Mentor

Just my caching problem, then.
Probably not.