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News Four U.S. soldiers charged with rape and murder

  1. Oct 18, 2006 #1

    Math Is Hard

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    http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/10/18/soldiers.court/index.html
    What kind of nutballs are we (the U.S.) sending over to "protect" and "help" these people as "friends of their new democracy"? Do I get any say in the punishment? Because I have some ideas. This really makes me angry. :mad:
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 19, 2006 #2
    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/10/01/ING42LCIGK1.DTL
     
  4. Oct 19, 2006 #3

    EL

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    These things happen in war all the time, and shouldn't come as a surprise.
     
  5. Oct 19, 2006 #4

    selfAdjoint

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    Absolutely true. Raping women and murdering civilians is something done in all armies in all wars. You can't attribute it to some special flaw in the US, or the present generation, or anything.

    What is special about the US, and the current generation is that these criminals are being brought before the bar of justice.
     
  6. Oct 19, 2006 #5

    Gokul43201

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    Any kind we can get! You think it's easy meeting recruitment quotas?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/07/w...n=1be0e7d4e2aac8d3&ei=5090&partner=rssuserlan
     
  7. Oct 19, 2006 #6

    arildno

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    Yes it would be, if there hadn't been an enlistment requirement to believe that all Iraqis are dangerous terrorists who need to be kept in check by all means.
    Most sane soldiers with some moral qualms are not allowed participate.

    That is, the usual selection preference of dumb soldiers is in force in the US (as in just about any other conflict throughout history).
     
  8. Oct 19, 2006 #7
  9. Oct 19, 2006 #8

    EL

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    No it's not special for the US. For example we have swedish soldiers convicted for war crimes in Bosnia.
    But maybe you ment that what is special is that US is now bringing their own soldiers to court, just as we have been doing here in Europe for a while?
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2006
  10. Oct 19, 2006 #9
    what bugs me about this is that there are tons of alleged crimes like this, you can find them to some degree everywhere you look and the coalition (not just the us) officals will always say 'no one in this army is commiting any war crimes' and every now and then these things still pop up. theres no question that these officals' remarks are inaccurate, the question is to what degree are they inaccurate.
     
  11. Oct 19, 2006 #10
    So you would do the same? Seems to me cultural background and the individual are the main determining factors.
    I do see that this has roots in our (primate) history of violence and that genocides actually have the same pattern - kill the men, rape the women.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2006
  12. Oct 20, 2006 #11

    EL

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    No, of course I wouldn't do the same. What I ment is that when you start a war, things like this will always happen. There are no "clean" wars, even though some pro-war people naively seems to think so.
     
  13. Oct 22, 2006 #12
    If you let them continue as "normal" actions, then yes they will.
     
  14. Oct 22, 2006 #13

    EL

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    You make it sound like I'm defending war crimes, and I don't see where you got that from?

    "Clean" wars are an utopia. The only way to get rid of war crimes is to not go to war.
     
  15. Oct 22, 2006 #14
    I see what you're saying. True we shouldn't be surprised given past evidence, but that doesn't mean that people won't be outraged by it. It sounded like an excuse someone might give to not do anything about it and hence let it continue as an acceptable loss.
     
  16. Oct 23, 2006 #15

    EL

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    That the war criminals should be punished is obvious. It's great that US finally seems to go in that direction. What would be even better is if US stopped starting unnecessary wars. Indirect it's the warlords who are responsible for all those crimes.
     
  17. Feb 22, 2007 #16

    siddharth

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    This war crime was in the news again
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6384781.stm
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2007
  18. Feb 22, 2007 #17

    radou

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    Any ideas on how to make them stop? I doubt.
     
  19. Feb 22, 2007 #18

    verty

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    I think it's obvious that the psychology/sociology of the soldiers is wrong. They are either nutjobs or the nature of the situation turns ordinary people into monsters. We shouldn't say "oh well, it happens", we should do something about it. I have a suspicion that private forces would better withstand such behaviour.

    In that recent friendly fire video, we hear one of the pilots say "Go get him!". If that is evident of the mentality of the soldiers, you know something is seriously wrong higher up.
     
  20. Feb 22, 2007 #19
    What is wrong with that mentality? The pilot obviously thought he was shooting at an enemy convoy.
     
  21. Feb 22, 2007 #20

    radou

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    ...or both.
     
  22. Feb 22, 2007 #21

    verty

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    It was said with glee, like a child might, like it's a game.
     
  23. Feb 22, 2007 #22
    I once met someone who'd served in the first Gulf War at a train station, he told me the best part about the war was running into a trench and gunning down Iraqis, he said he loved it, alot of the time he said they'd be unarmed, but he said he shot them anyway, and if he could he'd of stayed on in the army, but he had a non related injury that forced him out.

    There are nut jobs in every profession, if your a bit sociopathic in the army, who's going to notice that easilly? Since you spend your days killing and trying not to be killed? I'm sure psyche evalutations can catch the truly nutty, but every man is capable of the most barbaric acts given the right circumstances. I wouldn't expect war to bring out the best without the worst in equal measure from people. I just hope the real psycopaths are picked up early, so they can't do any real damage, those guys are needed for upper management or to run large corporations.:wink: :smile:
     
  24. Feb 22, 2007 #23

    radou

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    Exactly. :rofl:
     
  25. Feb 22, 2007 #24
    i read that this morning on the bbc...that was one way to start the day

    not only are the innocent Iraqi's suffering for no reason, but the American and the British troops are suffering too.
    Iraqi's die coz of a damn lie and a few crazed monsters, and the troops are dying...and for what? for what?! a lie?! i heard a lady explaining how she became a widow, after losing her husband in Iraq, and a single parent raising her two children (i wish i had paid more attention to what she was saying and stopped crying, it was very moving), this lady was answering another proud mum boasting about the fact that her son is signing up for the army to help bring peace in Iraq...if the situation in Iraq is bringing peace then i hope to never live peacefully.

    war is bad for everyone, the troops need to come out of Iraq, and the British and American leaders need to be taken to court for starting a war without good enough evidence, ruining an entire country, encouraging young men and women to sign up for the army and fight for no reason and going against the UN...but instead, Blair is going to retire into a lifestyle that most of us can only dream of and what a few Iraqi's lost
     
  26. Feb 22, 2007 #25

    verty

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    Sara, your post reads like an emotional appeal. Emotions don't lead to wise decisions.
     
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